johnroach100
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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:31:57 PM
Originally Posted by: Bowler Roller 

Everybody can hurt another person.

I just don't see drug tests making it harder for others to purchase drugs with your money. Heroin, Cocaine and meth users will just dry out for a few days before they get tested.



Not everybody has a button at work that can hurt or kill other people. Those people should be tested.

If we can't do away with welfare completely anything that makes it harder to get is a good thing. It may be different where you live but down here the abuse of the system is ridiculous.
Bowler Roller
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:41:43 PM
But most of us drive cars. Should all drivers be tested?

Where I'm from (Detroit), the abuse is so bad that testing won't even slow them down. There are many ways around tests, especially if your caseworker has a vested interest in you getting benefits.
Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
squirrel
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:48:04 PM
Originally Posted by: johnroach100 


If we can't do away with welfare completely anything that makes it harder to get is a good thing. It may be different where you live but down here the abuse of the system is ridiculous.



It's bad here in Kentucky, too... Families with 5+ kids, driving Escalades and Lincolns on Chrome Rims, all while buying 50 bux worth of junkfood for the troupe at the convenience store on the Food Stamp card...

johnroach100
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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:50:02 PM
Originally Posted by: Bowler Roller 

But most of us drive cars. Should all drivers be tested?

Where I'm from (Detroit), the abuse is so bad that testing won't even slow them down. There are many ways around tests, especially if your caseworker has a vested interest in you getting benefits.



So should we give up, or try to change the system?

I have a cdl, if I want a driving job I will be tested before I'm hired, and get random tests after that. At least the ones who can do the most damage will be screened.

I don't like the government in my life but if they have to be I want them messing with the bad guys too.
Bowler Roller
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:59:52 PM
We make changes that will actually do some good. I just don't see this doing any good, for reasons I've already stated.

I had a CDL and used it for several years. I had random testing too, but I never tested positive despite smoking pot during all my home time. They wasted a lot of the tax payers money testing me, but never caught me.

Not that it mattered. Smoking during my down time didn't affect my driving while I was out.

My habits don't make me a "bad guy".
Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
johnroach100
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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:19:03 PM
My cousin's husband who pulled a gas tanker got caught with a random test. He didn't smoke on his downtime. Like I said, I don't care what people do on their own time.

The Georgia law says you have to pay for your own test. If you're clean you can probably come up with the money for the test, if not you will probably find something else to spend the money on. Either way no taxpayer money is being wasted.

Your habits don't make you a bad guy unless you endanger others or try to take my money.
Benjibear
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:41:26 AM
There are many changes that need to occur with our welfare system. The problem is I don't feel they will ever happen. On one side you have people that want to abolish the system completely. On the other side, you have people that are afraid of stepping on their rights. The fact is the money is my money and while I am OK to help somebody in need, we need to give them just enough to survive and little enough that makes them want to get off the welfare rolls. If that is random drug testing, so be it.
It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Bowler Roller
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:38:10 AM
We'll see if it works, but I'm betting against it.
Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
johnroach100
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Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:45:40 PM
Originally Posted by: Benjibear 

There are many changes that need to occur with our welfare system. The problem is I don't feel they will ever happen. On one side you have people that want to abolish the system completely. On the other side, you have people that are afraid of stepping on their rights. The fact is the money is my money and while I am OK to help somebody in need, we need to give them just enough to survive and little enough that makes them want to get off the welfare rolls. If that is random drug testing, so be it.



I'm not trying to start an argument, but nobody has a "right" to my money without my permission. If somebody is in need and I want to help I will. I don't want the government deciding for me who is in need. For example, a local guy has a pregnant girlfriend. He is a part time pizza delivery guy. I offered him work but he said he would have to get up too early, he would rather sleep late. The girl said she would work sometimes if the hours are short. We will all pay for the baby whether we want to or not. Should they get a check from us? As far as I'm concerned, they can starve and have the baby in the backyard.
Benjibear
Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:44:15 AM
Originally Posted by: johnroach100 

I'm not trying to start an argument, but nobody has a "right" to my money without my permission. If somebody is in need and I want to help I will. I don't want the government deciding for me who is in need. For example, a local guy has a pregnant girlfriend. He is a part time pizza delivery guy. I offered him work but he said he would have to get up too early, he would rather sleep late. The girl said she would work sometimes if the hours are short. We will all pay for the baby whether we want to or not. Should they get a check from us? As far as I'm concerned, they can starve and have the baby in the backyard.



No real arguements starting here. I am just stating the fact that there are two extreme thoughts on this. I think our elected officials should find some middle ground here but I highly doubt the two sides can come together. The middle ground should be having a welfare system that is a temporary means to help those truely in need, gives them enough to survive, help them get over their reason for being on welfare, and return them back to productive members of society. The system needs to weed out the lazy and the people looking for an easy road. It should reward people that can get themselves off the system. It should penalize those that won't get themselves off the system. Recipiants need to be grateful that they are getting help instead of complaining that they are not getting enough.

As far as your example that is very common today with kids. I even know examples where a guy with a good paying job had a pregnant girlfriend but they did not get married because she continued to received assistance. His girlfriend was from a fairly well off family. She went to college and probably got some aid there as well. If there was no help, they would not starve.

The family unit and morals are distroyed in this country. The right is making a big thing about gay marriage distroying the family unit. The truth is kids today, especially in poorer and urban schools don't understand the traditional family. Walk into just about any school in this country and you will find very few kids that have married parents that are actually there biological parents.
It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
flamo
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Thursday, April 12, 2012 11:26:23 AM
"The family unit and morals are distroyed in this country. The right is making a big thing about gay marriage distroying the family unit. The truth is kids today, especially in poorer and urban schools don't understand the traditional family. Walk into just about any school in this country and you will find very few kids that have married parents that are actually there biological parents."

You have most of that right. We have lost our moral compass. It starts at the top, BHO in his latest rant about contraception is a prime example. No where did he say we will help those that are legally married. He in reality is promoting a further decay in morals by enabling bad behavior. In his stupidity he doesn't know the people who need contraception the most will never use it. Nor does he know the or plan B do not prevent STDs.

Some people need help, not a life style. Some times tough love is the answer.
I'm there, Old, Tired, Broke and Henpecked
Benjibear
Friday, April 13, 2012 6:46:58 AM
Originally Posted by: flamo 

"The family unit and morals are distroyed in this country. The right is making a big thing about gay marriage distroying the family unit. The truth is kids today, especially in poorer and urban schools don't understand the traditional family. Walk into just about any school in this country and you will find very few kids that have married parents that are actually there biological parents."

You have most of that right. We have lost our moral compass. It starts at the top, BHO in his latest rant about contraception is a prime example. No where did he say we will help those that are legally married. He in reality is promoting a further decay in morals by enabling bad behavior. In his stupidity he doesn't know the people who need contraception the most will never use it. Nor does he know the or plan B do not prevent STDs.

Some people need help, not a life style. Some times tough love is the answer.





The whole contraception thing was blown out by both sides. You are right that the people that keep procreating are the ones that will not use contraception. The people that decide when to have kids, will find the means to get contraception if they do not want kids at that time.

The tough love statement is true as well. When I have had to overcome obstacles in life, at the time it was a struggle but looking back on those times and if I succeeded, it gives me great statisfaction of my accomplishments. When I struggled and if I fell, I hope I learned something from it for the future.

I understand that people fall on hard times. God helps those who help themselves so they need to be the ones to get back up. It is OK and we should be giving them a helping hand but they are ultimatly responisble to get up and get moving through life. The welfare system should help them get up but it should not carry them through life.
It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Bowler Roller
Friday, April 13, 2012 10:59:06 AM
What happens when tests bring back a false positive?
Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
Benjibear
Friday, April 13, 2012 1:08:52 PM
Originally Posted by: Bowler Roller 

What happens when tests bring back a false positive?




True. Don't eat poppyseed before you go. It might be if they fail multiple tests. I am not sure what the chances are that a person could always produce a false positive. What do they do in other industries such as trucking?
It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Blake
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Friday, April 13, 2012 7:47:30 PM
http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp 

Re: False Positives
A competent tester will ask the right questions. If a positive result comes up, further testing of the sample should clear up the matter. If it doesn't a re-test should/might be set up.

The Bureau of Prisons even has a rule about baked goods containing poppy seeds.


Blake