BUB
  •  BUB
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Monday, December 6, 2004 9:49:36 PM
LIKE HIM OR NOT THE LOSS OF DAVID SMITH IS BY FAR THE BIGGEST EVENT OF THIS MILLENIUM SO FAR. THIS MAN MADE OR DESTROYED PEOPLE. AS FAR AS I 'AM CONCERNED, HE WAS A TRUE ICON IN THIS INDUSTRY FAR BIGGER THAN DUKE.
THINK THIS OUT IF HIS WIDOW DECIDES TO SELL OFF ALLIED TO A CONGLOMERATE, THEY DECIDE TO DROP HALF OF THERE LESS FAVORABLE ACCOUNTS... WHO IS GOING TO PICK THEM UP.. MENDAL-- I DON'T THINK SO.HAAS AT WHAT PRICE WILL THEY WRITE YOU..TWICE THREE TIMES YOUR YEARLY PREMIUM.. THINK ABOUT IT. BROOKS AGENCY CHECK THERE RATES AND CARRIER RATEINGS C AND D LEVEL SYNDICATES. NOT IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND AND WHERE ELSE.

THE INSURANCE CRISIS IS THE BIGGEST STORY ON THE HORIZON!!!!! JUST ASK WORLD WIDE, ARBROO,J AND J, A OF A, AND YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS.
NO INSURANCE NO SHOW, NO RIDES, GAMES, FAIRS,TRUCKS,COMPENSATION, ETC.
ANY COMMENTS
what the ????
alibiguyny
Monday, December 6, 2004 10:19:26 PM
this is true we were with allied the ones that clame they are there for you. and all of a sudden they sent us our scratch back. we didnt owe them like half of every one else. they said we cant you write you now. try to find insurance for a small show no more then 14 rides and see what they tell you. its tuff.
i dont smell em i just tell em......
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
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Tuesday, December 7, 2004 1:02:47 AM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by BUB

LIKE HIM OR NOT THE LOSS OF DAVID SMITH IS BY FAR THE BIGGEST EVENT OF THIS MILLENIUM SO FAR. THIS MAN MADE OR DESTROYED PEOPLE. AS FAR AS I 'AM CONCERNED, HE WAS A TRUE ICON IN THIS INDUSTRY FAR BIGGER THAN DUKE.
THINK THIS OUT IF HIS WIDOW DECIDES TO SELL OFF ALLIED TO A CONGLOMERATE, THEY DECIDE TO DROP HALF OF THERE LESS FAVORABLE ACCOUNTS... WHO IS GOING TO PICK THEM UP.. MENDAL-- I DON'T THINK SO.HAAS AT WHAT PRICE WILL THEY WRITE YOU..TWICE THREE TIMES YOUR YEARLY PREMIUM.. THINK ABOUT IT. BROOKS AGENCY CHECK THERE RATES AND CARRIER RATEINGS C AND D LEVEL SYNDICATES. NOT IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND AND WHERE ELSE.

THE INSURANCE CRISIS IS THE BIGGEST STORY ON THE HORIZON!!!!! JUST ASK WORLD WIDE, ARBROO,J AND J, A OF A, AND YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS.
NO INSURANCE NO SHOW, NO RIDES, GAMES, FAIRS,TRUCKS,COMPENSATION, ETC.
ANY COMMENTS



Maybe in Sarasota David's passing on was the biggest event of the millennium but in the real world it matters little. Duke was the man and always will be. To the day he died he called the shots and even after, he had a system set up that still rules to this day. David was a good guy but was not the brains behind Allied. Duke was. How do I know?

I was on several shows with him including Coleman and Gillette shows. When he left Gillette, I took his place as lotman. My first concession managers job one I relied on his advice from afar. Last show on the road I was with him was his own Blue Ribbon shows. After that went poof, he went to join Don Day in the insurance business. I went on to be concession manager with several shows and sold my business in 1980 to join him in Texas with Frank B. Hall. I only went back on the road because Duke left FBH to go to St. Pete to start up Allied and my wife wanted to see her two kids graduate from their high school in San Antonio so I went back out on the road with Smokey's Greater Shows. She stayed with FBH until her last kid graduated and we then moved to St. Pete and she want back to work for Duke where she stayed until we got the offer from Reithoffer. I considered Duke my friend, my mentor and my family. I owe everything I have to the help and influence of Duke Smith. I was there when David was born. and I worked for Duke at Frank B. Hall in Texas for years and met my wife in his office. He was the man, make no mistake about that. And by the way, David's wife can't sell off anything. She only has a seat on the board. As I said, Duke left a fine running machine.

That being said, I agree insurance is a big problem as well as one of the biggest expenses. It's a problem. Shows have themselves to blame because of the enormous losses. The reason Allied is dropping some and not writing new business is because it's a loss to do so. They are being picky. Don't forget. Allied can't pass the losses off to an insurance carrier, they own the insurance carrier. It's called T.H.E Insurance company. Mendel and HWW are agents like Allied but the difference is they don't own a company. They lay it off and if the carrier gets burnt? So what, they find another. I know. I watched FBH burn two companies back in the 80s. One was Ambassador and the other escapes my memory.

This is based on pure fact and not a guess. I was there, my wife was there. And, she still keeps in touch with Allied on a daily basis in her capacity as Risk Manager for Reithoffer Shows. She knows every person in that building on Treasure Island.
Sixcats have nine lives
orphaned
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 7:52:06 AM
Perhaps Fred Rosen has an angle to get into the insurance business.
archived01
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 10:11:06 AM
I think the most important statement in Sixcats post is. Shows have themselves to blame because of the enormous losses. I have been saying this for a long time on here when ever the insurance issue comes up. Insurance is a big issue but it's almost laughable to here people complain about it when they are part of the problem(not pointing out anyone just a general observation). Do you pay workers comp on your employees (all of them and not just 1/3 of what they actualy make either) have you ever had a ride get damaged because your help wasn't trained to move the ride and then turned it in on your cargo saying it was the wind that did the damage. There is always an angle in this business and it seems like everyone is always looking to pass the buck. I'm not defending the insurance companies by any means but like the saying goes don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. The unfortunate part is that the shows out there that do run a lagit operation pick up the tab for the ones who don't.
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
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  • Ride Supervisor
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 12:17:12 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by Scuba875

I think the most important statement in Sixcats post is. Shows have themselves to blame because of the enormous losses. I have been saying this for a long time on here when ever the insurance issue comes up. Insurance is a big issue but it's almost laughable to here people complain about it when they are part of the problem(not pointing out anyone just a general observation). Do you pay workers comp on your employees (all of them and not just 1/3 of what they actualy make either) have you ever had a ride get damaged because your help wasn't trained to move the ride and then turned it in on your cargo saying it was the wind that did the damage. There is always an angle in this business and it seems like everyone is always looking to pass the buck. I'm not defending the insurance companies by any means but like the saying goes don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. The unfortunate part is that the shows out there that do run a lagit operation pick up the tab for the ones who don't.




Without naming names, I couldn't begin to tell you how many phony claims were turned in while I was there. Imagine how many we didn't catch and that's why premiums are so high.

Also, we are in a sue mentality and people sue for no reason except a quick payday. My wife could post 25 pages on here of all the phony claims that the insurance company settled just to avoid a trail. And that's just in the 13 years she's been Risk Manager for Rick.
Sixcats have nine lives
flamo
  •  flamo
  • 87.94% (Honored)
  • Operations Foreman
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 6:48:14 PM
I worked for Duke years ago and remember David as a very young boy. No doubt both will be missed. As for insurance there is plenty of blame for all. Years ago insurance was a problem and nobody learned. When I built rides the key was to build it dummy proof. On delivery I gave all the safety info I could but until the industry wises up nothing will happen except higher payouts and higher premiums. In the many years I spent in the industry the only one I ever hurt was me. An elephant ear on an Eli #5 hit me in the head, 4 stitches later I started to get smart. That was at Rehobeth, Mass,
LaGasse Amusements, Aug 1959. Sixcat was there.

Now I'm in heavy industrial maintenence, just about the same iron. The industry needs old hands with good reputations for consultation and spot inspections. The carriers could pool and pay for a system like this. Yes it will cost money but it's cheaper than claims and it's go PR.
I'm there, Old, Tired, Broke and Henpecked
Bossman
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 7:14:07 PM
In my opinion, the death of David Smith is another marking point that is another sign of changes in this industry..Duke and later David knew each of their clients by name and sight..If you had a problem, they would work with you, if you kept your end of the bargin..Now, I am afraid that you will become just a account # and your cost of doing business will be reflected by your past history..We have seen this coming in other sectors of the industry..Your ablity to make money, pay your payments on time and keep your show's accidents to a minimun, will be your way of obtaining a less costly insurance policy..I used the word less, not cheap, as there isn't any cheap insurance today..
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
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Tuesday, December 7, 2004 7:41:49 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by flamo

In the many years I spent in the industry the only one I ever hurt was me. An elephant ear on an Eli #5 hit me in the head, 4 stitches later I started to get smart. That was at Rehobeth, Mass,
LaGasse Amusements, Aug 1959. Sixcat was there.





Yes, I was there and remember your yelp when you got hit. Wasn't worth trying to stare up her dress now was it? [;)]
Flamo almost flamed out that day.

In case anybody is interested, Flamo here was my best friend back when we both were wet behind the ears on Playtime shows and a few others in New England. We lost touch for over 40 years and now we have found each other again thanks to Matt and this site. You guys wouldn't believe the reminiscing we've been doing over the last few weeks. Thanks Matt.
Sixcats have nine lives
squirrel
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 8:28:37 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by Scuba875

I think the most important statement in Sixcats post is. Shows have themselves to blame because of the enormous losses. I have been saying this for a long time on here when ever the insurance issue comes up. Insurance is a big issue but it's almost laughable to here people complain about it when they are part of the problem(not pointing out anyone just a general observation). Do you pay workers comp on your employees (all of them and not just 1/3 of what they actualy make either) have you ever had a ride get damaged because your help wasn't trained to move the ride and then turned it in on your cargo saying it was the wind that did the damage. There is always an angle in this business and it seems like everyone is always looking to pass the buck. I'm not defending the insurance companies by any means but like the saying goes don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. The unfortunate part is that the shows out there that do run a lagit operation pick up the tab for the ones who don't.



That is my beef exactly, Scuba -- Why should shows that have flawless records in safety and operation continue to withstand the rising prices when other shows and operators continue to hurt people? I figure it like car insurance: If your driving record is clean, you get discounts (or atleast your rates don't rise). But have that first accident and your're screwed. No insurance for you! With carnival insurance, one show hurts someone, everyone written by that company foots the bill. That's ridiculous if you ask me, because it's not my fault that show X hurt someone when I own show Y... What do they expect me to do, go to show X and inspect/maintain/train/etc. (yeah, right...)? I worked for a show that never filed a claim in it's 15 years of operation, yet the rates continued to rise, sometimes doubling from one year to the next. What's the excuse for that Mr. Insurance Man (not you scuba)?
squirrel
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 8:52:48 PM
The other thing that has me twisted about insurance companies relating to this industry is this: After 9/11, the insurance rates for carnivals in the US damn near DOUBLED. There is no excuse for this. I'm sorry if people think this next statement heartless and cruel, but terrorists didn't drop any airplanes in a carnival midway. Why did our rates go up? No answer? Thought so...

Out of respect for the victims of 9/11 and their families, I won't comment any further on this statement.
MAHSharon
Friday, December 10, 2004 1:30:26 AM
Sixcat - Amen to your comments on Allied and THE. We have heard so many comments from people in the industry on the belief that this brokage and Insurance company won't survive. They are wrong - the board in place is dedicated to continuing that which Duke started and David was committed to. We have heard the complaints and problems with insurance all this past year. I could get on my soap box about that subject but then I am sure you hear it from your wife alot. I have enjoyed reading your posts this year, you have such a wealth of knowledge on this industry. Hope you wrote it down some where.
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