Pinetar
  •  Pinetar
  • 87.34% (Honored)
  • Operations Foreman Topic Starter
Saturday, November 6, 2004 5:48:28 AM
What were the rumors in early 04 and did anything significant happen?

The Murphy discussions dropped from the market place. Supposedly changes were made on the show but little info is trickling out.

Strates had to deal with contract changes but it seems like business as usual. The RICO suits will take years to finality

The Stone Canyon deal will be the largest point of interest for a good while, especially since it will impact showman and events, after all. some major players bought into it and in the end, others may of wished they had.
UserPostedImage
IndianaTED
Saturday, November 6, 2004 6:25:09 PM
Of the fairs and fests that I annually attend, I would say that from my amatuer eyes, that all were par or above compared to '03. However, even the ones that may have been up, it was not significantly. In general, the weather was good. That alone should have been a reason for better cash flow.

I've said this before...my fear going into the next season, is the price of fuel. It effects everything and everyone. And I truly believe it will soon get worse. I think that because it is my assumption that most businesses (carnivals included) have tried to hold the line passing along their increased transportation costs in the hope of some relief on the horizon. But everyone has their limit on how long they can do that before they are forced to pass it on. Especially with no relief in the forseeable future, and really with the threat it will get even worse.

Looking at it from the consumer's view...with the additional fuel cost for us, that just decreases our disposable income. And sorry to say, that for most of us...that is our "carnival money".

At my local fest this past season, there were some game joints on the midway, and the asking price was $3 to play. Those joints might as well have shut down and moved on. Nobody...well, very few, played those games. But I'm afraid that will be the norm soon enough, rather than the exception.

Sorry if I seem like a downer here, but I really think the economy as a whole is not good and will soon get worse. And that is very, very bad news (if I'm right) for the carnival biz.
I've never been "with it", just been an interested observer of carnivals for more than 50 years.
Johnny's United Shows..."A Family Tradition" and "All for Fun, Fun for All".
The carnival of my youth, which had roots that originated in my hometown.
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
  • 51.26% (Neutral)
  • Ride Supervisor
Saturday, November 6, 2004 8:40:18 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by IndianaTED

At my local fest this past season, there were some game joints on the midway, and the asking price was $3 to play. Those joints might as well have shut down and moved on. Nobody...well, very few, played those games. But I'm afraid that will be the norm soon enough, rather than the exception.

Sorry if I seem like a downer here, but I really think the economy as a whole is not good and will soon get worse. And that is very, very bad news (if I'm right) for the carnival biz.



I get more $5 plays on my doll joint then anything. I watched Joey Fowler get $3 on his water game in Pensacola and it kicked grass. If a game is worth it, they'll pay it. Some games couldn't get a tip if the price was $1. You must be a Democrat if you think the economy is bad. I went to the mall today and the lot was full. After, I went to the Walmart to get a script filled and couldn't find a parking space. Last night at Dothan we were up and it was freezing. No my friend, there's nothing wrong with our economy. Only thing I agree is, the price of gas hurts but as of yesterday, the price of a barrel of oil dropped to the lowest price since March. An economy is always going to be supply and demand. If they demand it and you can supply it, you'll make tons of money. You're right, you are a downer. Stop looking at the glass as half empty. Have a drink and it will be empty, but you won't be thirsty. [8D]
Sixcats have nine lives
BeGaughanFast
Sunday, November 7, 2004 4:41:05 AM
Murphy - as in Murphy Brothers. Reed Expositions were at most of the big spots with the bulk of their equipment (North Dakota State Fair, Wisconsin State Fair, NM State Fair, Tulsa Fair)Multiple reasons. Equipment coming back from Puerto Rico(the last of it got taken of the docks in Jacksonville in July). Equipment being refurbished(in house, Mulligan, MAH). His equipment was suppose to be on the boat for China right after Tulsa. Date got moved to January - Chinese New Year. Reeds are suppose to be doing the spots for them next year also. Spectulation as to whether the equipment will come back from China. But with the bond he got for the equipment it won't matter. Some of Murphy's equipment is in Florida working now with Kevin Exum. Deal in China is the equipment is on loc for 30-45 days. Torn down and moved over a period of 30 days and opens again for 30-45 days. Americans that are going over to work and train the Chinese will be able to come home during the 30 day move. The whole deal is suppose to be for a period of six months.
IndianaTED
Sunday, November 7, 2004 10:24:40 AM
Sixcat,

Yeah, as I admitted, I might be looking it is as a "glass half-empty", but...

As for the mall lot being full, you think that might have something to do with the Christmas season starting? I work part-time in retail, by the way having to get a second part-time job because the full-time job that I have held for over twenty five years, no longer can sustain todays standard of living that it used to.

I know first-hand of many others like me. I'm not whining, I do what I have to do by my own free choice. But to say that times aren't tough and getting tougher, well aparently we aren't seeing the same world.

Politics had nothing to do with my comment, so please don't label me democrat or otherwise. Frankly, I live in a state where we are in debt to the tune of over $800 million dollars, and that under democratic governorship for the last 16 years. So I think neither party has a good control over the economy right now.

Sorry, didn't mean to start a political argument...well, I still feel like I didn't...I was just reporting on what I saw this year. And by the way, I thought I said the season had been "at par or better", didn't I?

Further, if the economy is OK and the future is looking good, why are the Show owners being so reluctant to reinvest in new equipment?
I've never been "with it", just been an interested observer of carnivals for more than 50 years.
Johnny's United Shows..."A Family Tradition" and "All for Fun, Fun for All".
The carnival of my youth, which had roots that originated in my hometown.
Scott
  •  Scott
  • 87% (Honored)
  • Operations Foreman
Sunday, November 7, 2004 11:53:58 AM
Quote:

quote:


At my local fest this past season, there were some game joints on the midway, and the asking price was $3 to play.



I raised my Duck Pond to 3.00 this year or 2 for 5.00 and we ROCK N ROLLED! Wish to God I had done that last year. Most opt for the 5.00 deal. Duck Pond grossed more this year than ever.

Pintar, sorry we've got off your topic here.... don't you hate it when we do that? [;)]

I hear Jerry Murphy is in China now... don't know if there is any truth to it or not.
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
  • 51.26% (Neutral)
  • Ride Supervisor
Sunday, November 7, 2004 12:00:36 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by IndianaTED

Sixcat,

As for the mall lot being full, you think that might have something to do with the Christmas season starting?
Further, if the economy is OK and the future is looking good, why are the Show owners being so reluctant to reinvest in new equipment?



If the economy was bad, the mall lots wouldn't be full even if it was Christmas and that season doesn't start until Thanksgiving. As for buying new rides, the manufactures are pricing themselves out of business. And BTW, you didn't start a political argument. I did. [;)]
Sixcats have nine lives
Pinetar
  •  Pinetar
  • 87.34% (Honored)
  • Operations Foreman Topic Starter
Sunday, November 7, 2004 12:31:00 PM
The comments from sixcat are about business and that info is good to know but we are still discussing the year in review. Otherwise, no problemo.
UserPostedImage
IndianaTED
Sunday, November 7, 2004 12:59:06 PM
So now we have learned two things...

1. No one does Christmas shopping before Thanksgiving.

2. Ride Manufacturers are so eager to go bankrupt, they are willing to jack their prices so high to do it.

Maybe I just don't get it, but neither of these scenarios seem logical.

Sorry for straying off topic.
I've never been "with it", just been an interested observer of carnivals for more than 50 years.
Johnny's United Shows..."A Family Tradition" and "All for Fun, Fun for All".
The carnival of my youth, which had roots that originated in my hometown.
Scott
  •  Scott
  • 87% (Honored)
  • Operations Foreman
Sunday, November 7, 2004 1:26:10 PM
Quote:

quote:


2. Ride Manufacturers are so eager to go bankrupt, they are willing to jack their prices so high to do it.



Well, I know someone who bought a Bobs out of a park.... when they called Chance to get a tub load built is was gonna cost them 80K for an empty trailer! You think that price is justified? You think they spent their money with Chance? Chance would have been better off to make a resonable price and made a few bucks in the process... instead they made nothing.
BSA Mike
Sunday, November 7, 2004 1:38:34 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by Scott

Quote:

quote:


2. Ride Manufacturers are so eager to go bankrupt, they are willing to jack their prices so high to do it.



Well, I know someone who bought a Bobs out of a park.... when they called Chance to get a tub load built is was gonna cost them 80K for an empty trailer! You think that price is justified? You think they spent their money with Chance? Chance would have been better off to make a resonable price and made a few bucks in the process... instead they made nothing.



Lol scott, we bought an old Flying bobs trailer off of Tommy Coffing @ usedrides and did some rearranging and made everything fit and came out about 70g's cheaper lol
Sixcat
  •  Sixcat
  • 51.26% (Neutral)
  • Ride Supervisor
Sunday, November 7, 2004 6:05:14 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by Pinetar

The comments from sixcat are about business and that info is good to know but we are still discussing the year in review. Otherwise, no problemo.

Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by IndianaTED

So now we have learned two things...

1. No one does Christmas shopping before Thanksgiving.

2. Ride Manufacturers are so eager to go bankrupt, they are willing to jack their prices so high to do it.

Maybe I just don't get it, but neither of these scenarios seem logical.

Sorry for straying off topic.



For Pinetar
The season in review. The spring sucked because of the high rise in gas costs. It got better after people got used to paying an arm and a leg for gas. The summer was good, the fall was great. All in all, it was a good season and, it's still going on. My stuff is working but thank god I'm home. One trip to Dothan this weekend and I'm home for good.

For IndianaTED.
I didn't expect you to get it. Makes to much sense. [}:)]
Sixcats have nine lives
barn
  •  barn
  • 50.06% (Neutral)
  • Foreman
Monday, November 8, 2004 12:30:18 AM
Mr Sixcat If you think this country isnt in a finacial crunch come up to Ted and my state(Indiana)This state is in bad shape(and getting worsr with a lousey new govenor)Any of us that are union workers workers,we arent going to affoed any games or rides.
ScorpionKing
Monday, November 8, 2004 12:31:31 AM
well this seasons motto shoulda been "You Win Some, You lose Big on Some" we"Mid America" had an up and down year. the spring with the exception of the birmingham spot was crap that includes the florida run... we didnt do very well in Orchard Lake,Mi which is a key to our early season....our fair season started on a down note due to Greentown,In (my hometown fair) being waaay below par. then we just Blew the *#@! up in Goshen and South Bend,In. Jackson, Mi was horrid due to the committies screw up with the wristband days( we made a circus jump in there for nothing in my opinion). I went to minnesota after Adrian,Mi.... boy was minnesota a joke this year....Allegan seemd decent to me but still not as good as advertised.....After another circus jump into centerville... we did ok the numbers were about what they have always been(predictable)... And the season ended on a high note in evansville,In( gotta love the nut club)... we went to birmingham after evansville but thats more of a vacation than a spot... it was a well rounded season full of suprises... i went from just another ride guy to being the ride sup on our first unit....(sure didnt see that one coming).... full of speculation...will or wont this big merger work...and full of dissapointment.... all i have to say is that wade accident at the beginning of the season... you have to love this business and the cast of characters in it... i started 5 years ago as just something to get me back on track... it has become and always will be the love of my life... the job i was meant for....i know now that i will always will be involved with this industry in one way or another... I am Truly a Lifer....
Skywheelrider
Monday, November 8, 2004 3:21:58 AM
I noticed that about Mid America this year; some of their spots I visited appeared to be doing well, and others did not. Orchard Lake was not near as busy this year as it has been in the past. Yet some of the Spring spots seemed to be okay, like St. Joan of Arc in St. Clair Shores, and Warren Woods, while Dearborn Heights and Garden City seemed to be waaaay down, same with the shopping centre spots. Of course, all the rain this year I am sure did some damage.

One show owner told me around Labour Day that they had only one week during the summer that had been nice weather-wise the whole week. I visited over 100 spots this year, some seemed good, some were average, some were down. The Wayne County Fair and the Michigan State Fair were way up, and the Wisconsin and Indiana State Fair's were as busy as could be when I was at each, and people were riding, eating good, and playing games at both. Same with the Mooreland, Indiana spot Ryan and I stumbled onto--a Wednesday afternoon and the place was packed, they were riding, eating, playing. Yet on my way home from that trip I stopped off at the Kalamazoo and Jackson County Fair's here in Michigan and they were both dead, which shocked me, especially after all the good things I had heard about Jackson.


Other spots I visited that appeared to be way up over previous years were the Livonia Spree (one of the largest festivals in Michigan), Ionia Free Fair, Applefest in New Boston, Armada Fair, Southgate Heritage Festival, Flint Expo (better location helped, IMO), St. Raphael in Garden City, Redford Township Community Fest, St. Scholastica in Detroit, and a few others. Of course, on the flip side, it appeared the Westland Summer Festival, National Strawberry Festival in Belleville, Wayne/Ford Civic League in Westland, Allen Park Days, St. Robert Bellarmine in Redford Township, all appeared down from previous years. Some spots just seemed to do well, not really up or down, but are good spots and seemed to keep that trend, like the St. Clair Shores Spring Carnival, which had good weather for the most part, which was good, since Wade Shows the previous weekend had been dead in the water at a regular spot at a shopping centre. The Ohio State Fair had a good crowd the day Ryan and I visited, and the two other county fair's I visited in Ohio had good crowds that were riding, eating, and playing games, the Hancock County Fair and the Allen County Fair (despite the rain). The Lake County Fair in Indiana had a great crowd as well, riding, eating, playing.

Once the weather stayed nice from the end of August right through to the end of September, every lot I visited was busy (some, like St. Anne in Warren and Our Lady of Loretto in Redford Township, were so crowded you could hardly move) and seemed to be doing well, but it remained to be seen if that made up for the bad weather in the Spring and Summer months.

From some "gossip" I have heard floating around, 2005 should be a very interesting year.

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." -- Mark Twain