Greg
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Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:22:47 PM
Does anyone have any insight as to how this mess will affect our industry?
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flamo
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Sunday, October 13, 2013 12:27:52 AM
Originally Posted by: Greg 

Does anyone have any insight as to how this mess will affect our industry?


Nobody in any industry really knows. They are still writing the regulations. At last count it was over 13,000 of them. Many questions have been asked such are temporary employees covered? (Seasonal) Do the bigger shows (over 50 employees) get the delay as do bigger companies? Is it cheaper to pay the fine than the insurance? How does it work when a show travels from one state to another? Will shows hire everybody as a private contractor? Lots of questions but no answers.


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Dan L.
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Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:01:54 AM
Greg I cannot say with certainty how Obamacare will affect the Amusement Industry, but all of my friends in the Banking business are worried about a looming downturn in the economy next year. Two reasons for that are that Businesses are going to be burdened with the extra costs of complying with Obamacare, but more importantly with everyone's insurance premiums going up the consumer is going to have less money to spend. I believe that money spent at the Carnival is discretionary income. With less of that the consumer will have to choose where to spend their money.

My belief is that Obamacare is going to be met with a rising revolt in the coming year among the electorate as they learn more about the law is.
Soda Guy
Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:19:05 PM
Originally Posted by: Dan L. 

Greg I cannot say with certainty how Obamacare will affect the Amusement Industry, but all of my friends in the Banking business are worried about a looming downturn in the economy next year. Two reasons for that are that Businesses are going to be burdened with the extra costs of complying with Obamacare, but more importantly with everyone's insurance premiums going up the consumer is going to have less money to spend. I believe that money spent at the Carnival is discretionary income. With less of that the consumer will have to choose where to spend their money.

My belief is that Obamacare is going to be met with a rising revolt in the coming year among the electorate as they learn more about the law is.




Dan I am hearing the same thing in regards to bankers, and other financial lenders. One thing that MIGHT help lessen the burden on the outdoor amusement industry is that more people might need to stay close to home and not go to a regional or national amusement park or vacation. Plus on some of the second tier fairs, the non-state fairs or huge fairs, is that committees and show owners will start having to sharpen their pencils and work to make their event a cost effective form of entertainment for the public. It might mean changing percentages, more X on certain food items for the show owner, accepting fewer rides, and maybe the show will need to address their prices on all three areas, food, games, and rides. More open dialog and innovative ideas will be needed from all parties involved.

One thing I do know, this is one of the most resilient industries out there. Maybe because the owners are still on the lots everyday, not sitting in some board room and just looking at spreadsheets.


flamo
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Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:32:02 PM
There is a question that needs an answer, mostly with smaller shows. The employees are required to carry insurance or pay the fine. Where is that money coming from? There are no easy answers and with all the research I have done including reading the entire ACA it addresses the result, not the cause. The money spent on illegals is never addressed. They will continue to game the system at taxpayer and those insured pay for.That is in the billions yearly and getting worse. But I agree with Benji, a revolt is coming. Obama is going to be lucky not to be impeached over this.
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Soda Guy
Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:15:23 PM
Originally Posted by: flamo 

There is a question that needs an answer, mostly with smaller shows. The employees are required to carry insurance or pay the fine. Where is that money coming from? There are no easy answers and with all the research I have done including reading the entire ACA it addresses the result, not the cause. The money spent on illegals is never addressed. They will continue to game the system at taxpayer and those insured pay for.That is in the billions yearly and getting worse. But I agree with Benji, a revolt is coming. Obama is going to be lucky not to be impeached over this.




Flamo As a small business owner (under 50 employees in this case) I don't have to provide insurance for full time workers. And it is not my job to report whether they have insurance. See each individual will need to report that to the IRS on their own tax forms. What I don't know is if worker "X" doesn't have insurance will that show up on a background check? And if it does will not having it be a criminal or a civil matter?

One thing that I have to watch out for when I am doing my research on Obamacare is to make sure my own personal opinion doesn't cloud my thinking when searching for actual answers. It does make a difference, you can find yourself misreading things to help make your argument.

What I hope happens is this will keep being delayed until the President is out of office and then will be repealed. As for will he be impeached, not a chance. I mean the numbers aren't there and would just be a waste of time and money. Sort of like playing 3 card monte.
Dan L.
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Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:24:42 PM
I don't think that Obama will be impeached, but I do think that the Democrats will pay a heavy price for ram-rodding a bad bill into law. I am not against healthcare for all, but I hate that we have a bad bill driven by a one party ideology. A 2800 page bill that not one Republican voted for. No bi-partisan input. And now the President has made changes to the law as he sees fit outside of the legislative process. I think that will be challenged in court going forward as well.

I for one am worried how it will affect my business. Storage is no different than the Amusement industry in that it is discretionary income that the consumer has to decide how they will spend.

We as a Nation would have been better served to just have put the so called 30 million uninsured on Medicare. JMHO.
Chris_texas
Monday, October 14, 2013 12:23:02 AM
Originally Posted by: Soda Guy 

Flamo As a small business owner (under 50 employees in this case) I don't have to provide insurance for full time workers. And it is not my job to report whether they have insurance. See each individual will need to report that to the IRS on their own tax forms. What I don't know is if worker "X" doesn't have insurance will that show up on a background check? And if it does will not having it be a criminal or a civil matter?



It's civil.

Quote:

One thing that I have to watch out for when I am doing my research on Obamacare is to make sure my own personal opinion doesn't cloud my thinking when searching for actual answers. It does make a difference, you can find yourself misreading things to help make your argument.

What I hope happens is this will keep being delayed until the President is out of office and then will be repealed. As for will he be impeached, not a chance. I mean the numbers aren't there and would just be a waste of time and money. Sort of like playing 3 card monte.



It's not going to be repealed or delayed -- the insurance companies are making an unimaginable fortune out of this piece of corporate welfare.

Chris_texas
Monday, October 14, 2013 12:38:21 AM
Originally Posted by: flamo 

There is a question that needs an answer, mostly with smaller shows. The employees are required to carry insurance or pay the fine. Where is that money coming from?



The fine will come out of their tax returns. If they do not pay it will be carried over until they do, and the fine -- while small today -- is going to increase dramatically over the next two years.

HOWEVER, there are numerous exemptions to this fine and it would not be difficult at all for any carnival worker to legally demonstrate that they are exempt from this mandate. Depending upon where these workers claim residence it is entirely possible that many will be able to qualify for expanded medicaid.

Quote:

There are no easy answers and with all the research I have done including reading the entire ACA it addresses the result, not the cause. The money spent on illegals is never addressed. They will continue to game the system at taxpayer and those insured pay for.That is in the billions yearly and getting worse. But I agree with Benji, a revolt is coming. Obama is going to be lucky not to be impeached over this.



Whether you like the ACA or not, and I do not, there is absolutely no chance that Obama will be impeached over this law. There aren't even enough votes for that in the GOP controlled House, let alone in the Democratic controlled Senate. It is possible that the Democratic party will suffer some political fallout over the mandates in this law (down the road), but that is dependent on whether or not the number who benefit outnumber that segment of the population getting screwed. And in any case, any mileage the GOP might gain from the problems with Obamacare they are rapidly flushing down the toilet.

Chris_texas
Monday, October 14, 2013 12:42:58 AM
The one good thing we have going for us is that our industry is relatively recession proof -- or more so than most at any rate. Even during the Great Depression our industry managed to survive.
flamo
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Monday, October 14, 2013 12:53:14 AM
There are massive problems with the ACA. I spent 18 months trying to find out why costs went up so fast. Basically the main reasons are govt mandates, cost shifting, and law suits. In 1960 the cost per capita was $248 per year in current dollars. Its over $8000 now. Medicare was not properly written of funded. The under payments to doctors and facilities were made up by shifting the loss to paying people. The the govt said ER could refuse no one. 70% of people should have gone to a clinic or doctor. Malpractice insurance is state dependent so the cost ranges from $23,000 to $30,000 plus for a GP. In FL the cost for an OBGYN is $248,000. The ACA does nothing to address this. WHat is not understood is nothing is free, somebody pays. As for our industry I look for shows to hire people on a contract basis or use a temp agency.
The dems won't get hit that badly, the media will run cover for them. I doubt if you will much new equipment next year. I look for spots to cut back as many chains are. People that have no insurance now and get it will have even less money to spend. Even if they just get fined they will come up short. Medicare wont work either. Its going broke now and Obama already took 700 billion from it. That will no doubt hurt me at some point in time as I paid into it and am on it. Imagine if a family had to pay $100 a month for each member as I do. I haven't heard anything from OABA.
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geewizz66
Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:01:04 PM
I have been told, but haven't seen it in writing yet but supposedly we are going to have to provide health care for our Visa Worker's REGARDLESS of the size of our Company. That along with $ 14.83 per hour next year - it's going to be very difficult to justify bringing them back. Burback from Funtastic Shows stopped using the Hombres a few years ago and said that he uses American's now and they don't do as good of a job NOR is the quality of their work!

We've made a point of hiring more Americans this year and we have had two decent ones stay out of 30.

As for Obamacare, it's all bullcrap. I logged on to healthcare.gov and was going to check and see how those rates compared to what I was paying now for my family. When it asked for our bank account numbers, I stopped the process and called the number for Arizona, waited on hold for about an hour - I was told that I had to give them that bank information AND each one of my kids Social Security numbers BEFORE they could process my application! I asked why and she told me that it was all part of the deal and I basically told her to get bent. They need our Social Security numbers, bank account numbers AND five year health history before they can "process the application???" WTF is that about?? No preexisting conditions to be a factor in what you pay - isn't that what the loud mouth from DC said??!!

We're going to bury our Country over the 15% that do not have health coverage now??!! Most of those uninsured are wealthy enough to pay for their own medical needs the others are just too damned dumb to figure out how to get free State health care!

We just need to get through the next three years, vote all of those a-holes out of Office and then elect a Government that CAN AND WILL go and change all of the freebie crap - that's if we haven't become a SOCIALIST SOCIETY TOTALLY BY THEN!



Geewizz66
thunderbolt85
Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:51:24 AM
BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS????? REALLY?

Well, then again not surprised, this all about control, and the feds want to control our lives and know everything about us.

Give em your bank account numbers and now they know what you spend, how much you put in there, and so on.

Don't do it, refuse to go along with it, don't pay the fines, we got to stand up to this junk.

Our freedoms, personal choice, and personal liberty is being taken away, not to mention what this government is doing to our business and economy.

Sorry, really ticked me off when I read that and had to sound off.
Cygnus12
Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:55:29 AM
Without going into some liberal rant, I'm just going to say that Obamacare should have at least had a public option and in the best scenario, would have started down the path of a single payer system. In the latter case, businesses wouldn't have to pay a dime for their employees healthcare because everyone individually would be paying into a government sponsored healthcare system. Right now, the ACA is a shell of what it could have been.
Benjibear
Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:38:59 PM
Originally Posted by: Cygnus12 

Without going into some liberal rant, I'm just going to say that Obamacare should have at least had a public option and in the best scenario, would have started down the path of a single payer system. In the latter case, businesses wouldn't have to pay a dime for their employees healthcare because everyone individually would be paying into a government sponsored healthcare system. Right now, the ACA is a shell of what it could have been.



That will never happen because it would put the insurance companies out of business. They have enough money to influence politics on either side. If Republicans were in control and whatever they would have done (or probably not done) would have helped the insurance companies (and the healthcare industry). I agree the US should have some basic government sponsored healthcare but not going to happen so I wouldn't hold your breath.
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