IndianaTED
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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:31:20 PM
For your consideration and opinions...

This event was started, and ran for all of its ten years, by volunteers. Truth be known, it probably has been struggling for a few years now, and they were suggesting a wine/beer tent to try to expand the draw. Needless to say, this created quite a conteversy here, and ultimately, though not exclusively, its downfall.

This has caused quite a lively debate locally, as you can view in the comments section at the end of the article.

http://www.thebraziltimes.com/story/1988283.html 
I've never been "with it", just been an interested observer of carnivals for more than 50 years.
Johnny's United Shows..."A Family Tradition" and "All for Fun, Fun for All".
The carnival of my youth, which had roots that originated in my hometown.
Soda Guy
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:46:37 PM


Ted

What show just learned that they now have an open week?

Kind of a bad decision for everyone involved.
Scott
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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:50:14 PM
I had a Festival here ... My largest 35,000 people in 7 hours ... I called it my state fair. Head of the Chamber of Commerce was handed the festival when her predessor sp? took a new job. She turned into a miserable * to deal with the last couple of years and finally said...'I'm through with it}" and pulled the plug. A couple of concessionaires and myself offered to take it over and do all the "dirty work" and she still said "NO" She waisted so much money that the city gave her to put on the festival which she used as the excuse of "it's losing money" She spent 12,000 dollars to pay for some national competitive eatting contesting to show up and eat an obscene amount of food.
thunderbolt85
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 3:19:10 PM
Booze and rides don't mix and every festival or fair doesn't need it. Matter of fact seems more family friendly without it.
Soda Guy
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 4:47:23 PM
Originally Posted by: thunderbolt85 

Booze and rides don't mix and every festival or fair doesn't need it. Matter of fact seems more family friendly without it.





Don't tell that to the many many many carnivals that play Church dates with beer gardens along with many of the ethnic street festivals. Shoot I guess all those folks have been doing it wrong all these years.

It isn't the booze, it is the people that can't handle drinking it that screw things up. Do you really believe that these folks that get way out of control drunk at these things, the only time they drink is when the festival is on?


thunderbolt85
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:05:19 PM
Originally Posted by: Soda Guy 

Don't tell that to the many many many carnivals that play Church dates with beer gardens along with many of the ethnic street festivals. Shoot I guess all those folks have been doing it wrong all these years.

It isn't the booze, it is the people that can't handle drinking it that screw things up. Do you really believe that these folks that get way out of control drunk at these things, the only time they drink is when the festival is on?



Doesn't matter if that's the only time they drink or not...they drink and get drunk at that event and cause problems. A festival I worked for many years had booze, I was younger then and thought it was part of it, but saw the end results. That includes problems on the rides, and causing problems on the lot. There are plenty of bars and you can drink all day long at home, there needs to be some places without for familys.

Not to mention you never know how many do get drunk or even just "buzzed" then drive home, and there is no way you can't say that that doesn't happen. Yeah yeah I know what your going to say, that's their problem and they did it, but we need to take some responsibility ourselves.

I read the article and seems "the people" were fine without it and wanted one place to go that was family oriented.
Soda Guy
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:15:27 PM
Originally Posted by: thunderbolt85 

Doesn't matter if that's the only time they drink or not...they drink and get drunk at that event and cause problems. A festival I worked for many years had booze, I was younger then and thought it was part of it, but saw the end results. That includes problems on the rides, and causing problems on the lot. There are plenty of bars and you can drink all day long at home, there needs to be some places without for familys.

Not to mention you never know how many do get drunk or even just "buzzed" then drive home, and there is no way you can't say that that doesn't happen. Yeah yeah I know what your going to say, that's their problem and they did it, but we need to take some responsibility ourselves.

I read the article and seems "the people" were fine without it and wanted one place to go that was family oriented.



So any place that sells booze in your mind isn't family oriented? Dang I knew those folks at Disney didn't know a damn thing about having a family friendly place. Not to mention all the chain restaurants, ball fields, stadiums. . . . . Isn't it easier to just start expecting people to be responsible for their own actions instead of trying to regulate every minute of everyone's life?


thunderbolt85
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:52:18 PM
Originally Posted by: Soda Guy 

So any place that sells booze in your mind isn't family oriented? Dang I knew those folks at Disney didn't know a damn thing about having a family friendly place. Not to mention all the chain restaurants, ball fields, stadiums. . . . . Isn't it easier to just start expecting people to be responsible for their own actions instead of trying to regulate every minute of everyone's life?



No one is trying to regulate everyone's life but not everyone wants that stuff every where they go as well. People can choose to avoid bars and the such but if every event offers it where are they supposed to go?

But in the end doesn't matter because that's your opinion and my opinion and I can see u and I will never agree because you seem to think you have all the answers and no one else should have an opinion or make an observation about a show unless it fits your guidelines.

So be it, I respect ur right to ur opinion.

But now because of alcohol a 10 yr festival is gone.
britt
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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:02:12 PM
seems every fair I have visited in Michigan, and going again in August, has beer tents. they have control over them in all the locations tho I visited. fenced off, security, porta-johns, entertainment stages, etc. different clientele and the patrons are accustomed to it. here in the Bible belt there is a different mentality and beer and fairs just do not mix well. there are a couple with beer gardens and there seems to be not problem, especially those events at coliseums where they sell beer at all events anyway. festivals are a different story. some I have attended allow beer and some do not. couple of them allow you to walk the street with a cup in hand and some you had to stay under a tent. no trouble or problems at either one. But we do not sell beer at our fair and I do not think we ever will. it would not mix well with our event imo.
Soda Guy
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:39:32 PM
Originally Posted by: thunderbolt85 

No one is trying to regulate everyone's life but not everyone wants that stuff every where they go as well. People can choose to avoid bars and the such but if every event offers it where are they supposed to go?

But in the end doesn't matter because that's your opinion and my opinion and I can see u and I will never agree because you seem to think you have all the answers and no one else should have an opinion or make an observation about a show unless it fits your guidelines.

So be it, I respect ur right to ur opinion.

But now because of alcohol a 10 yr festival is gone.



You state that because of alcohol a 10 yr festival is gone.

I guess you didn't read the comments from some board members. I will enlighten you or help you comprehend what was stated. The festival wasn't canceled because of alcohol, but the last straw was it was canceled because they asked the question. The park board also raised the rent on the festival along with other problems.

Now having been around festivals with and without alcohol you would think that the insurance premium would be a huge difference in price between having or not having alcohol, but it isn't that huge a difference. Less that 10% the last time I checked prices. Not that shows me from an insurance financial side that there aren't near the problems that most people think.

As for the amount of work it looked like they had a great plan, did their research, asked the experts in law enforcement for not only help but guidance to make this as safe as possible. What I always wonder when it comes to boards like the park board, why not try it one year, then if there are problems the high and almighty folks that were against it can say for a year I TOLD YOU SO. But instead of looking at what the experts suggested the group do and the groups plan they pulled the small town stick your head in the sand plan of doing anything different.

Thuderbolt it isn't about me being right, it is about trying to expand a festival, get more people to attend. If you aren't trying to grow, you are stagnate. And a stagnate festival might just fold. Oops it did fold.


thunderbolt85
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:40:09 PM
Originally Posted by: Soda Guy 

You state that because of alcohol a 10 yr festival is gone.

I guess you didn't read the comments from some board members. I will enlighten you or help you comprehend what was stated. The festival wasn't canceled because of alcohol, but the last straw was it was canceled because they asked the question. The park board also raised the rent on the festival along with other problems.

Now having been around festivals with and without alcohol you would think that the insurance premium would be a huge difference in price between having or not having alcohol, but it isn't that huge a difference. Less that 10% the last time I checked prices. Not that shows me from an insurance financial side that there aren't near the problems that most people think.

As for the amount of work it looked like they had a great plan, did their research, asked the experts in law enforcement for not only help but guidance to make this as safe as possible. What I always wonder when it comes to boards like the park board, why not try it one year, then if there are problems the high and almighty folks that were against it can say for a year I TOLD YOU SO. But instead of looking at what the experts suggested the group do and the groups plan they pulled the small town stick your head in the sand plan of doing anything different.

Thuderbolt it isn't about me being right, it is about trying to expand a festival, get more people to attend. If you aren't trying to grow, you are stagnate. And a stagnate festival might just fold. Oops it did fold.



Common sense says that anything stagnate will fail, so sure there were probley some more issues here, but booze isn't the answer. Plenty of fairs, amusement parks, festivals have survived for years and years with huge crowds without beer or wine...plenty of them. I am sure there were other ways of generating more revenue without bringing in the beer tent option.

One fair I know of that was a strong fair at one time closed its doors not long after your idea of "growth and change", that was a shame too it was a good fair.

A strong festival I know of that sells beer and wine also had hundreds of drunks handcuffed to the security fence around the stage and they had "thought it out well" and had plenty of police on patrol.

Anyhow, as I said before you and I will never agree, not sure sometimes that you want to meet on middle ground, sounds a lot like you only like to "correct" people that you don't agree with. I don't have a problem with correction, but there are better ways of going about it. Like I said, we are (well most of us anyway) are always learning and the day you stop learning is the day you need to retire.
IndianaTED
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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:17:43 PM
Originally Posted by: Soda Guy 

Ted

What show just learned that they now have an open week?

Kind of a bad decision for everyone involved.



Luehr's has brought rides, about half their Show, for the last few years. I don't know for a fact that they were committed for this year.


I've never been "with it", just been an interested observer of carnivals for more than 50 years.
Johnny's United Shows..."A Family Tradition" and "All for Fun, Fun for All".
The carnival of my youth, which had roots that originated in my hometown.
Jackpotter
Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:38:29 PM
Here's the thing....if an event doesn't sell alcohol, those who want it will sneak it in one way or the other. Happens all the time. The majority of county fairs in Kentucky DO NOT sell alcohol, but walk the parking lot after closing or take the trash patrol the next morning and you'll soon learn that Bud Light is the beer of choice among fair patrons and it is amazing how many sneak it in. Most fairs here the parking is on the grounds so its easy to go back to the car and refill that large plastic coke cup you bought or even brought with you.

The fairs who do sell alcohol do a very good job policing it.

The state fair sells it as well in big tents with live bands. Those tents a big draw for patrons and sponsorships.

My theory is, if people are gonna sneak it in, why not sell it and make some money off of it? Sure, people still snet in, but they won't go back to their cars for refills and will buy yours if you keep them entertained.
Majestic Fan1982
Friday, July 26, 2013 10:40:33 PM
St Johns church in PA has called it quits as well.
tried to set them in the right direction for some years had a few
midways play it Houghton shows and Oscar's . They just wasn't into
it boring committee with no planning always thru the event together
and called it a church carnival. As far as beer goes I agree with soda
guy must handle the liquor they do flag you at a certain point of course
tho and it's probably the mixed drinks that fires everyone up .
Benjibear
Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:29:54 AM
I don't know if things have changed but when I worked spots while I was growing ups, the trend was the places with alcohol always had fights and a rowdier crowd. A lot had to do with how well they policed things and where the beer was being served. It it was off to the side, it had less problems, where if it was right in the middle of the lot, the problems were more severe.

Also, are the patrons going to the festival itself or are they just going to drink? If it is the latter that is when you have problems. You don't go to Disney or the state fair to get loaded and drunk but you may have a drink while there. If your point is to get hammered go to a local club, bar, or sit at him with friends.

It sounds like there was more to this then the alcohol. It sounds like volunteers were also an issue. There was an article here in the local paper that the local Lions, Kiwanis, Rotary, Churches, etc. was having problems with members. The numbers they gave for some of the organizations was that the numbers are greatly down and the average age of volunteers was up.


It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
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