dccradio
  •  dccradio
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Saturday, November 29, 2003 11:58:29 AM
I've said it before, I am just a huge Carnival fan and I originally came to the board because of the friendliness of the users and because some of my long time questions were being answered about carnivals. Now it seems like the users of the board are playing games and I know I am scared to post anything. Instead of following through with the original topic of a thread it leads to who knows what. For instance when I posted a question as to what rides were at Neverland the subject drastically changed.

There used to be a board like this one in my line of work which is radio. The DJ's, recording artists, promoters etc would post about their music, life on the road etc. Then because so many users posted things on topic like folks have been doing on MCW lately the owners of that radio board said the heck with this and shut the site down permanently. I don't want to see that happen here and I as a total outsider from the industry wish we could get back to discussing carnivals, fairs, rides etc just like the original intent was.

Am not trying to be a problem I just want people to feel comfortable and willing to post here. I have a ton of carnival questions but right now am too scared to ask because of all that has gone on here lately. Is there anyway that we can keep threads on topic and if another question arises after reading the thread post as a new topic?

Can we please stop the games and get back on target with the board so that myself and numerous others feel safe posting here? If someone is wrong about a post can't we just politely tell them they are wrong instead of causing a scene or even PM them so that it isn't publicly bashing? Just some ideas and I sure am not trying to cause problems, am actually trying to get things back on track so that others who feel like I do will get back to posting.
Mark H
cny_chris
Saturday, November 29, 2003 4:39:27 PM
Things have definitely changed around here, and not for the best. My personal *****sment of the situation is it started with the bashing of a certain carnival operator, who shall remain nameless (hint: choo choo)[;)]. Over the course of the bashing, things degenerated to the point where I stopped posting for 2 weeks, and gave serious consideration to stopping posting altogether. Thankfully, things improved somewhat, but the damage has already been done. However, I do believe that the MCW Message Board can return to the way it used to be, that is, a place to positively discuss the carnival biz and modeling, provided that those of us here make an effort to do so.

The games of late go totally against the idea behind the board. This is a DISCUSSION forum. If no one shares anything, how can we discuss it? If it is something that cannot be publicly discussed, for one reason or another, then it should not be brought up, especially if it is going to be brought up as a teasing, "I know something you don't know" type of post. Mark asked a simple question regarding Neverland, the desired response got lost so badly in the firestorm, that I attempted to get the topic back on track to his original question. I think the attempt succeeded. Unfortunately, the positives got lost in the firestorm.

Mark makes a very valid point that the kind of crap that has been going on can kill a board. Lots of the posters here probably don't realize that this board costs Matt and secret.squirrel real money to keep going. They have been generous enough to supply the forum for us to gather at out of their own time and money. They certainly do not have to keep doing it.

I encourage everyone to post your questions, and DON'T let the issues that are ongoing affect your willingness to ask them. I don't care if someone asks the stupidest question in the world -- the fact that they asked the question is reason enough to help them out and provide the best answer I can supply, provided I know something about what they are asking. Someone here will know the answer, or will be able to point them in the direction of where they can find the answer. If we do this, and keep the facts and the opinions separate and differentiated, I think a lot of the friction around here will go away.

I encourage EVERYONE to work a little more at getting the board back to what it once was. Let's cut out the BS, leave the games to the agents out in the joints and their marks, and have a bunch of great discussions. No sense in turning this board into a place where folks looking to discuss things feel intimidated, harassed, badgered, and bullied. I hate to keep posting this type of response to this type of post, so let's make this the last time I have to do it, okay?

That's my two cents worth, like it or not. I'm gonna make the effort, so please join me. Comments, questions -- let 'em rip.[:)]

Chris
"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." - Lao-Tsu

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy
RideMan
Saturday, November 29, 2003 5:08:11 PM
I haven't been here long enough to know the soap opera.

But let me tell you something: I'm usually hanging out on news://rec.roller-coaster which used to be the nicest Usenet newsgroup on the Internet. I've been participating in that group since 1991 or 1992, almost but not quite since The Beginning.

r.r-c is an unmoderated newsgroup, but it has become something of a community. In recent years, it's become more than a little bit nasty. Trolls have arrived, people scream at each other, and it's not as pleasant a place as it once was. As any discussion group gets larger, it seems inevitable as Godwin's Law that the 'signal to noise ratio' for the group will drop, the group will become progressively less nice, and unfortunately, good people tend to leave as the jerks begin to take over.

It is important to recognize this pattern, because when it starts to happen, there is really only one way to maintain the group. To do that, the reasonable people have to keep participating, ignoring the garbage, and attempting to keep good conversation alive. It's absolutely critical, because if the good people stop posting, the group goes into a death spiral, and the jerks end up winning.

That's not what good discussion is all about. Any discussion group thrives on participation. So protect your interests in this discussion group. Participate!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
warren from orlando
Saturday, November 29, 2003 6:12:10 PM
Well stated Dave. I, too, read the roller coaster and theme park newsgroups and have noticed the change over the past few years. Dave is right in that the key to maintaining a great forum or newsgroup is to ignore the trolls and garbage and to participate. Unfortunately, for me, lately my schedule and activities have not been appropriate for postings in eithe this forum or the newsgroups. Likewise, I haven't had anything of relevence or value to add to the new topics that have shown up since I dislike reading posts that simply say "me too" or some such stuff.

The lack of postings on my part, however, does not indicate a lack of interest. I simply do not have anything to add to the topic. For example, as many fairs as I worked as a circus performer, I never moved a ride or worked a game -- as much as I would like to do so. Hence I can't post on those topics. I can comment on safety standards, possible causes of ride incidents, and such issues when they do come up. Occasionally there is a discussion of a ride about which I have some information and I try to share that. I ignore those threads which are nothing but complaints that are based on lack of knowledge or just complaints to complain.

This is a valuable and enjoyable forum for a lot of us. Let us all try to keep it that way. I hope that there will be a get together in Gibsonton since I missed the one at IAAPA (as well as the whole IAAPA show this year).

Warren
squirrel
Saturday, November 29, 2003 6:44:43 PM
I will not quote just one of the replies in this thread but I will try to address all of you together here.

I have heard some of the 'things that went on around here' this summer, and I can say that I have seen worse in the past. I agree that there is no room for it. When you have a membership totalling over 400+ users, with an average of 100+ posts/week (currently - used to be around 50+ posts/day) things like bashing and other arguements can happen... Most everyone knows that I am gone during the summer season, so I am not around very much at all to check up on things. As I slowly get caught up around here, I hope to make some improvements on our end of the system. Hopefully, with that and the fact that there will be 3 moderators around here instead of two. SDS-Mike said it best a little while back, so I'm not gonna quote him again... I can say this - some people may get their feelings hurt about what I have to say and some may not like my opinions, but at this point with what I've heard of late, it's gonna be like this. If there are things that create real problems around here, they will be dealt with quickly. As a service and gesture to Matt and the other members of this forum, I provide the hosting for this portion of Matt's site at no charge, but in that same aspect, I will not be able to let this forum gain a bad reputation as I will not have it affect the reputation of Matt's Carnival Warehouse and the www.rideguy.com  websites. We all provide this forum not only as a service to you all but as a place for all of us to share information, ideas, concepts, facts, and so forth. Please notice that last statement did not include RUMORS. I myself posted a rumor in the past, but that will never happen again, as it's 'just poor business'. I look forward to everyone's postings in the future and hope to see this community grow even more than it has in the past.

Don't forget, the Parklinks Carnival website contest should be coming up soon - - be ready to submit your votes for your favorite sites.
Matt C.
Saturday, November 29, 2003 7:14:20 PM
SS, well said... I am glad you are back to help out.
Matt Cook
Matt's Carnival Warehouse / Matt's Web Design
http://www.carnivalwarehouse.com 
http://www.mwdwebdesign.com 
Matt C.
Saturday, November 29, 2003 7:29:09 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by RideMan





It is important to recognize this pattern, because when it starts to happen, there is really only one way to maintain the group. To do that, the reasonable people have to keep participating, ignoring the garbage, and attempting to keep good conversation alive. It's absolutely critical, because if the good people stop posting, the group goes into a death spiral, and the jerks end up winning.


--Dave Althoff, Jr.

]
Dave, you are 100% correct, and that is what I have been preaching to the board for a while now... although, some do not get it- lol.

Go on with your business folks, dont let pointless garbage stand in your way. If you have something exciting to share, say it.. dont get discusted and fraz-dazzled all over what someone else has to say. We all love to hear what people say, and alot of it is awesome information that is fun to participate in, but then again, some stuff may anger us, and some of us may not aggree with it.

Free speech is another argument... While it is our first ammendment right, how far can we take that??


Matt Cook
Matt's Carnival Warehouse / Matt's Web Design
http://www.carnivalwarehouse.com 
http://www.mwdwebdesign.com 
squirrel
Saturday, November 29, 2003 7:35:13 PM
Quote:

quote:


Originally posted by Matt C.

SS, well said... I am glad you are back to help out.


Aye, yessir <grin> - glad to be back [}:)]
dccradio
  •  dccradio
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Sunday, November 30, 2003 4:54:22 AM
Thanks guys you are right in fact I was thinking the same thing that we need to just post regardless of the garbage. I have also been thinking and maybe I am wrong but I don't think the rumors are even wrong if posted properly, for instance. I've been hearing rumors about a certain show selling a ride can anyone confirm or deny this? I mean that wouldn't be a bad post would it? Just trying to see what can and can't be done here. Thanks!
Mark H
cny_chris
Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:07:48 AM
Quote:

quote:


Posted - 11/30/2003 : 09:54:22 AM by dccradio

I have also been thinking and maybe I am wrong but I don't think the rumors are even wrong if posted properly, for instance. I've been hearing rumors about a certain show selling a ride can anyone confirm or deny this? I mean that wouldn't be a bad post would it?



Posting so-called rumors was how things got out of hand here a while back. I think it is better to steer clear of them. I also think that squirrel, as an MCW god, has spoken:

Quote:

quote:


Posted - 11/29/2003 : 11:44:43 PM by secret.squirrel

<snip>
We all provide this forum not only as a service to you all but as a place for all of us to share information, ideas, concepts, facts, and so forth. Please notice that last statement did not include RUMORS. I myself posted a rumor in the past, but that will never happen again, as it's 'just poor business'.
<snip>



It's probably best to ask about rumors via PM's to a person in the know. That's my take on it.

Chris
"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." - Lao-Tsu

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy
dccradio
  •  dccradio
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Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:16:09 AM
Chris, great idea if you know who to PM but being an outsider to the carnival biz I really wouldn't know who is in the know and neither would the newcomers to the board. Any ideas?
Mark H
cny_chris
Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:25:34 AM
If you read enough of the posts around here, you can probably figure out who might be able to help you out. If it's about a Chicago area show, Ryan and Matt are the folks. If it involves a Sky Wheel, or a show in the Michigan area, then Chris Hurley (Skywheelrider) is your man. SilverCometJay and BillP know upstate New York and Strates pretty well. I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

You could also make a post to the effect of: "Could someone who is familiar with XYZ Shows drop me a PM?"

Hope this helps.

Chris
"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." - Lao-Tsu

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy