ringmaster
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Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:09:34 PM
Uncle_Buck :" all I asked for was a legitimate answer. This is a very serious topic, hold all of your antics for what show is taking what spot from who, or where is lawerence carr"

🔥 Actually a time of massive unemployment lis a serious topic and I gave a serious answer. I assume you believe that only the 1% of people who agree with you are entitled to speak.
I don't remember ever talking about who got what how, except maybe RAS in Canada, and I know where Larry Carr is.
I don't consider American born show help to be" lazy drunkards" for the most part, they are some of the most hardworking, innovative, intelligent, and in some cases, honest people I've had the honer of spending my live with. It is a great shame that you are killing them off, because you can.
Good bye guys, see ya' down the road
Soon to be[ban6]
Dave.
squirrel
Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:53:54 PM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

Uncle_Buck :" all I asked for was a legitimate answer. This is a very serious topic, hold all of your antics for what show is taking what spot from who, or where is lawerence carr"

🔥 Actually a time of massive unemployment lis a serious topic and I gave a serious answer. I assume you believe that only the 1% of people who agree with you are entitled to speak.
I don't remember ever talking about who got what how, except maybe RAS in Canada, and I know where Larry Carr is.
I don't consider American born show help to be" lazy drunkards" for the most part, they are some of the most hardworking, innovative, intelligent, and in some cases, honest people I've had the honer of spending my live with. It is a great shame that you are killing them off, because you can.
Good bye guys, see ya' down the road
Soon to be[ban6]
Dave.



I'm not banning nor blocking you. I am however going to start playing a much more active role against those who can't play nice. Personally, I've had it. I used to check this board atleast 10 times a day and see atleast 10-50 replies EACH TIME THAT WERE NEW, but now I'm lucky to see 10 replies in a complete day, and lately, half of them are slams against other members because of differing opinions.

-----[ TO ALL ]-----
THIS FORUM IS A PLACE WHERE OPINIONS ARE ALLOWED. SLAMMING ANOTHER MEMBER FOR VOICING THEIR OPINION, HOWEVER, IS NOT. The whole concept of discussing something is opening yourself up to other people's opinions, just as you have the ability to voice yours. If you can't handle someone else's opinion, and that opinion was rendered in a fashion that did not bash or slam someone, then move on to the next topic. If that's too much for someone, then message me, and I will have no problem locking your account until you can GROW THE F*CK UP and learn how to be sociable and have consideration for others just as you want them to have consideration for you.

From here forward, any posts that I don't catch, there is a button on EACH REPLY called "REPORT". If you feel a post has gone past the point of being reasonable, then you need to take it upon yourself and REPORT IT so that a moderator or an administrator can deal with it.
-----[ END RANT ]-----


uncle_buck
Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:28:22 AM
I'm glad you know where larry is,and show x and y will be determined at a later date. All of this, and still no answer to my question. So someone please respone with a real answer
They'll miss us when we're gone!
chief
Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:37:33 AM
I'm going to hit the report button everytime just to keep u on your toes. And because I'm I * stirer!!!!
Chief
"the party in hell has been canceled, do to the fire"
squirrel
Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:45:48 AM
Originally Posted by: uncle_buck 

I'm glad you know where larry is,and show x and y will be determined at a later date. All of this, and still no answer to my question.



All of this, and you were the one who instigated a lot of that bickering by the original post. You didn't like his answer, which was his opinion, and responded with a slam. In turn, he decided rather than not be able to render his opinion on a public forum, he was going to leave. I don't blame him. If you post a thread, and you don't like someone's response, slamming them back is not how you continue a discussion. Bringing up points how you didn't agree with his opinion would have been a better response. But a bash/slam is not the way...

Originally Posted by: uncle_buck 

So someone please respone with a real answer



They probably would, but they don't want to get bashed... On the other hand, responses to that topic belong in that topic...

[rules]

[backtotop

uncle_buck
Tuesday, December 6, 2011 4:36:54 AM
I'm not bashing anyone. I am guilty of sarcasem(sp) but I truly would like to know what comes out of any meetings they might have in vegas. Maybe the original post from oaba can chime in on any follow ups they may have.
They'll miss us when we're gone!
ringmaster
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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 6:24:07 PM
Your question was, will somebody post more on this subject. I've never owed a carnival or belonged to OABA,more the IISA type. I did want to point out that this is not considered a popular practice by everyone, it was not a personal attack. Dealing with help and booking good spots are two of the most difficult and important things show owners do. I know I do not have those skill sets, and I envy those who do.
That said, In a time when millions of people have lost their jobs and homes through things they have no control over, I don't think calling importing of guest worker un-American is that much of a stretch. Don't tell me that their are not workers and whole families that would not love to have a regular job, housing and food, if even for only a few months.
Some of the other replies were more than disrespectful to members of this board that worked eighteen hour days, ten days at a stretch, and then tore down in the rain, and then did it again the next week. That's not the definition of spoiled and lazy. And I'm not bashing foreign workers, even undocumented ones.
I didn't post on the other thread, because I want to keep it free to for owners to discuss this topic no to become a debating match. [bdh]
geewizz66
Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:12:26 AM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

Your question was, will somebody post more on this subject. I've never owed a carnival or belonged to OABA,more the IISA type. I did want to point out that this is not considered a popular practice by everyone, it was not a personal attack. Dealing with help and booking good spots are two of the most difficult and important things show owners do. I know I do not have those skill sets, and I envy those who do.
That said, In a time when millions of people have lost their jobs and homes through things they have no control over, I don't think calling importing of guest worker un-American is that much of a stretch. Don't tell me that their are not workers and whole families that would not love to have a regular job, housing and food, if even for only a few months.
Some of the other replies were more than disrespectful to members of this board that worked eighteen hour days, ten days at a stretch, and then tore down in the rain, and then did it again the next week. That's not the definition of spoiled and lazy. And I'm not bashing foreign workers, even undocumented ones.
I didn't post on the other thread, because I want to keep it free to for owners to discuss this topic no to become a debating match. [bdh]



I haven't looked at that other thread yet as I ran across this first. We just posted in six states for workers for our carnival and got 8 - EIGHT responses. Four of those applicants had some type of FELONY in their background involving MINORS AND OR EMBEZELMENT charges. One was under the age of 18. One didn't have a drivers license due to TWO EXTREME DUI'S. The other two were acceptable but needed transportation paid to Phoenix but later we found out that one of the men had a wife and two children that he expected us to find him housing or buy him a larger Living Quarters than what we offered. I need 25 people to work with the 10 other's that I have on my staff on a full time basis.

WHERE ARE YOUR MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WORKERS??? Maybe I should hire you to handle our Human Resourses Dept. and you can see for yourself what we are up against. AND if you think that it was because of lousy pay, we had to offer a prevailing wage of $ 13.50 to $ 14.50 per hour based on a 40 hour week.

My Father always said that if you need and really want a job there are a ton of them out there. If you only want a certain type of job or are to choosey, sit on the fence BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO REALLY WORK ANYWAY!

I imagine it's pretty easy to be an armchair quarterback and you've admitted that you don't have the stones to step up and risk it all and there is NOTHING WRONG with that. Your insults don't bother me in the least because your just like those guys that we used to drop off at the truckstop, all full of opinions and "what you should do" and "what I would do" but you can't pull the trigger.

I just try to give another side of the topic. Most of my buddy's that own equipment tell me that I'm wasting my time here because those who understand it, get it and those who don't, NEVER WILL. I choose to believe that most people have common sense and when given both sides of a topic can come to their own conclusions. Those who don't understand and won't listen to reason are doomed to their fate.

Just my opinion!



Geewizz66
flamo
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Thursday, December 8, 2011 6:07:10 AM
Originally Posted by: geewizz66 

I haven't looked at that other thread yet as I ran across this first. We just posted in six states for workers for our carnival and got 8 - EIGHT responses. Four of those applicants had some type of FELONY in their background involving MINORS AND OR EMBEZELMENT charges. One was under the age of 18. One didn't have a drivers license due to TWO EXTREME DUI'S. The other two were acceptable but needed transportation paid to Phoenix but later we found out that one of the men had a wife and two children that he expected us to find him housing or buy him a larger Living Quarters than what we offered. I need 25 people to work with the 10 other's that I have on my staff on a full time basis.

WHERE ARE YOUR MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WORKERS??? Maybe I should hire you to handle our Human Resourses Dept. and you can see for yourself what we are up against. AND if you think that it was because of lousy pay, we had to offer a prevailing wage of $ 13.50 to $ 14.50 per hour based on a 40 hour week.

My Father always said that if you need and really want a job there are a ton of them out there. If you only want a certain type of job or are to choosey, sit on the fence BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO REALLY WORK ANYWAY!

I imagine it's pretty easy to be an armchair quarterback and you've admitted that you don't have the stones to step up and risk it all and there is NOTHING WRONG with that. Your insults don't bother me in the least because your just like those guys that we used to drop off at the truckstop, all full of opinions and "what you should do" and "what I would do" but you can't pull the trigger.

I just try to give another side of the topic. Most of my buddy's that own equipment tell me that I'm wasting my time here because those who understand it, get it and those who don't, NEVER WILL. I choose to believe that most people have common sense and when given both sides of a topic can come to their own conclusions. Those who don't understand and won't listen to reason are doomed to their fate.

Just my opinion!


As long as people get checks from now to eternity they won't work on a show lot. They know its hard work, long hours and low pay. Over the years I have watched the changes from ground mounted rides that required a foreman to move and a second man to operate. It wasn't too many years and trailer mounted rides that the help wanted top wages and in many cases could barely move a ride let alone maintain it. Many shows will use imported help not because they want to, because they have to.
I'm there, Old, Tired, Broke and Henpecked
JustinJames
Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:32:06 PM
Like a guy that wants $500.00 a week to move a funhouse when the amigos laugh at him cause they move the Tilt, MGR and Kiddieland. Haven't met a lot of amigo primmadonnas I know that much.


I agree with Flamo.
flamo
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Thursday, December 8, 2011 4:10:02 PM
Let me carry this a bit further. Back in the day at almost every spot had more extra help than you needed. Men wanting work for extra money. How much extra help is available now? Then they got paid by the ride, it averaged $5, now they want a high hourly rate and drag it out. In my early days we closed on Sat night, tore down, set upon Sunday and opened Monday night for still dates. You move one major ride. Back then we had a manufacturing base when men actually worked for living and many did piece work. Now there is little manufacturing and not many do actual work, they sit behind desks or watch machines do the work for them. Back then you raised the towers and pulled spokes on a wheel with ropes, now you lift a handle, Usually 5 men handled Tilt bull plates now its electric hoist or a fork lift. If you need men you have to go to a temp agency. I'd suggest the local unemployment office provide extra help, no work, no check. As a nation we have got soft and lazy. Its easier to the govt do it for you. We didn't have govt intervention back then. Now there are far to many safety regs like fall protection. We didn't hurt because we had common sense which is lacking now. Sure we had accidents and they do today as well. Very difficult to prevent mechanical failures and no one has figured out how to prevent stupid. We had no bunk house back then or if there were they were on railroad shows. Times sure have changed
I'm there, Old, Tired, Broke and Henpecked
ringmaster
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Thursday, December 8, 2011 8:04:56 PM
I had hoped this was behind me, ......... however.
where to begin ?
I am an armchair quarter back now, and I have not been active in the business for nine years. I realize things have changed, and not for the better. I never said that I retired for lack of stones, it was actually for lack of lungs.
If I could
stand up with out falling over I would still have my Zibit on the independent midways and go busking in the Winter.
Posted ? I worked anytime I wanted thirty years before the internet.
We once hung a sign on a fence in Cleveland and had 500 people standing in line for nine one day jobs. And that was before the world fell appart for most people.
Next time you redlight someone in a truck stop, hang around long enough to find a replacement.
He wanted' you to hire his wife and kid,so? Where do you get your ticket sellers and concession help ? Oh yea, I remember, Africa.
I would not suggest the local unemployment office or manpower. Personal experience.
If you don't think there is a huge untapped work force out their then you are getting you "facts" from Fox News.
Bye the bye the only pile of pig iron that ever beat me was the Ziklon.
Gee, ex-felons, sure don't want to give those guys a leg up, same goes for wabblies[excl] .
geewizz66
Thursday, December 8, 2011 10:56:24 PM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

I had hoped this was behind me, ......... however.
where to begin ?
I am an armchair quarter back now, and I have not been active in the business for nine years. I realize things have changed, and not for the better. I never said that I retired for lack of stones, it was actually for lack of lungs.
If I could
stand up with out falling over I would still have my Zibit on the independent midways and go busking in the Winter.
Posted ? I worked anytime I wanted thirty years before the internet.
We once hung a sign on a fence in Cleveland and had 500 people standing in line for nine one day jobs. And that was before the world fell appart for most people.
Next time you redlight someone in a truck stop, hang around long enough to find a replacement.
He wanted' you to hire his wife and kid,so? Where do you get your ticket sellers and concession help ? Oh yea, I remember, Africa.
I would not suggest the local unemployment office or manpower. Personal experience.
If you don't think there is a huge untapped work force out their then you are getting you "facts" from Fox News.
Bye the bye the only pile of pig iron that ever beat me was the Ziklon.
Gee, ex-felons, sure don't want to give those guys a leg up, same goes for wabblies[excl] .



The child was 5 or 6, we are a smaller show and don't have facilities to take care of a small child. We have all single man bunkrooms and I'm not going to go out and buy someone that I don't even know a house trailer. Sorry. Ex-felons?? Like I said, you don't have a clue. We work 12 or 13 Catholic Churches and over 10 schools and most municipalites now want employee lists and THEY PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS. We are under tremendous scrutiny and I'm not interested in dealing with all of that crap. The days have having to hold the hands of help and beg them to show up the day after payday and for them not to screw with whatever lot lizzard shows them a little action and not to party the night before tear down so that they are clear headed and can focus are over for me. I've never had a worker that was screwed up on whatever drug/alcohol just hurt him or herself.

My company is for sale. Step up and then you can show me and 50 or 60 other show owners and independent operators how it's done!

I would much rather use Americans, I truly would but they are very few and far between. So rather than take the 10 good workers that I have and force them to deal with the typical types of workers that we do get here and run those good people into the ground because lets face it, the show must go on, I choose not to. Damned me if you must.

Calling you an "armchair quarterback,"?? hmmmmmm or should I just call you a pontificator??!! Theorizing is a beautiful thing when you don't have to live it and try to make it work!

I do appreciate your comments and isn't it wonderful to live in a free society?! - for now anyway that is. No one would believe where our Country is now back in 2008, I shudder to imagine what it would be like if the current administration is reelected.










Geewizz66
ridejocky
Thursday, December 8, 2011 11:09:10 PM
Uh, I think it's WHEN "...the current administration is reelected."
Ride the Zipper?
JustinJames
Thursday, December 8, 2011 11:10:14 PM
If I could offer an different angle to discuss...

I can't honestly say it has taken the jobs away in the biz. But what it has done is up the anty a bit with help. Consider this... If you are skilled at SOMETHING whether it be welding, painting, fiberglass, electrical, generators, mechanical, possess a CDL or have management capabilities then there isn't a show in the country that would say no without good reason to hiring you. Here's another point... if you do not do drugs of any sort, drink or need a smoke break every 30 minutes (meaning non or light smoker) then again, who wouldn't hire you? I have little talent in my opinion with a lot of things but again, I have a little. For example, I can keep a ride lit and repair lighting on rides that have been left in distress. I can paint. I am no mechanical wizard but basic repairs or no issue. I can wire a show. I can move almost any ride or be taught to. I have a CDL and enthusiasm for the job. I do not touch drugs, smokes or alchohol therefore I am never too partied out to show up. So I have usually been in a position of management or supervisor on a show. I did not start there. I started out as a spot help on a Gravitron in the early 90's. I eventually moved up a little bit and moved a few rides. I tried to manage a show and failed miserably several years ago. But I learned over the last several years what I did wrong and moved up and on from there. I have NEVER turned down someone who was capable and needed a job even though we use amigos. I am not disagreeing with Ringmaster OR his opposition just saying there are other things to consider beside whether it's un-patriotic or not.

So consider this... the amigos and other foreign labor offer a choice to show owners to pick the best of who comes looking for work as opposed to just hiring anyone to get by.

Just offering another perspective. What do you guys think?

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