Bowler Roller
Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:19:51 AM
Well, I'm a pretty insensitive guy when it comes to taking my rights away.

It is a fact of life: if you don't watch your kids, they get hurt. It's not my fault that that statement is true. It just is. No matter how many rights you strip from me, it will still be true.


Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
Benjibear
Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:07:29 AM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Bowler Roller

Well, I'm a pretty insensitive guy when it comes to taking my rights away.

It is a fact of life: if you don't watch your kids, they get hurt. It's not my fault that that statement is true. It just is. No matter how many rights you strip from me, it will still be true.





Face all of us and all kids are "abused" in some way and it is impossible to watch your kids every second until they turn 18.

Sexual abuse isn't the same thing as a kid just getting hurt. Also, we are not talking only about little kids here. Some parents think it is perfectly OK to let a 13 or 14 year old alone. Earlier then that I walked alone on a lot or through my parents town on my bike. I know it is a sad that kids can't have the independance that I had. You don't want to even let your kids out of your site or walk a block from school.

You should be so proud that you are putting your rights ahead of an inocent child. So what you are saying is, it is OK to take a childs rights away. What makes you more important then a child?
It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Bowler Roller
Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:20:14 AM
What rights am I taking from a child?
Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
JimmyD
  •  JimmyD
  • 52.88% (Neutral)
  • Ride Supervisor
Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:52:04 AM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Benjibear

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Bowler Roller

Well, I'm a pretty insensitive guy when it comes to taking my rights away.

It is a fact of life: if you don't watch your kids, they get hurt. It's not my fault that that statement is true. It just is. No matter how many rights you strip from me, it will still be true.





Face all of us and all kids are "abused" in some way and it is impossible to watch your kids every second until they turn 18.

Sexual abuse isn't the same thing as a kid just getting hurt. Also, we are not talking only about little kids here. Some parents think it is perfectly OK to let a 13 or 14 year old alone. Earlier then that I walked alone on a lot or through my parents town on my bike. I know it is a sad that kids can't have the independance that I had. You don't want to even let your kids out of your site or walk a block from school.

You should be so proud that you are putting your rights ahead of an inocent child. So what you are saying is, it is OK to take a childs rights away. What makes you more important then a child?



I agree that children dont ask for bad things to happen. I do see it all the time where parents let their children run loose. It drives me nuts, but it aside from a lack of supervision it doesnt really affect me. they are only in my care for about 2 minutes. I have weighed in before on the use of backround checks and I find it offensive to have to prove that I am a decent human being, it is another instance where my right to privacy is taken away. I also agree 100% that there is a great deal of discrimination against carnival workers. If you are going to single us out, then there should be backround checks for any industry that has contact with children. Some carnivals already do backround checks, but when the government makes it a mandatory requirement, then it should do so to each and every industry. I am sure that WalMart does a backround check, but does it do it on its own accord and are the results furnished to the state like they are in our Industry? Does the state tell Wal Mart which employees it can hire and which it cant? No, Wal Mart makes those decisions itself, so why is it ok for Wal Mart or any other company to do so but not us?

Jimmy D
James Dillman III
Dillman Family Rides Inc.
Odditycollector
Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:27:40 PM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Skywheelrider

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Odditycollector

I agree that yes it is being used mainly on just carnival workers and not vendors. The other night on Craigslist in the Syracuse area someone was posting about the guy from Wheelock Rides that was arrested for Sex charges was back working for them and even took pics of him working around kids last week if true it is going to do nothing but make it harder for everybody. I have had to go through a few background check it does not bother me at all but that is what is happening all over the place.

I could probably give you one guess as to who that was that was posting. A few others here and with Wheelock would know who it is....



The person posting seemed to be either a recently fired or was fired employee he was using to many slang words you only hear on the lot from show people. This past Christmas season I was at Santa's Enchanted Forest in Miami Not only were you being checked for wants and warrants and Sex crimes convictions but also making sure name and SS number matched up. Did it stop any problems? Nope a 13 year old was Raped by a Vendors' employee.
Skywheelrider
Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:36:46 PM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Odditycollector

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Skywheelrider

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Odditycollector

I agree that yes it is being used mainly on just carnival workers and not vendors. The other night on Craigslist in the Syracuse area someone was posting about the guy from Wheelock Rides that was arrested for Sex charges was back working for them and even took pics of him working around kids last week if true it is going to do nothing but make it harder for everybody. I have had to go through a few background check it does not bother me at all but that is what is happening all over the place.

I could probably give you one guess as to who that was that was posting. A few others here and with Wheelock would know who it is....



The person posting seemed to be either a recently fired or was fired employee he was using to many slang words you only hear on the lot from show people. This past Christmas season I was at Santa's Enchanted Forest in Miami Not only were you being checked for wants and warrants and Sex crimes convictions but also making sure name and SS number matched up. Did it stop any problems? Nope a 13 year old was Raped by a Vendors' employee.

Okay, I know exactly who it is then. He holds a grudge against the Wheelock's. He used to post here but was banned.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." -- Mark Twain
with-it
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  • Operations Foreman
Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:12:41 PM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Mamatiger

Though I don't like the fact that carnival workers are singled out for background checks, at least it kept this one off the midway...

http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cm...CMH-2008-07-21-0031.html 

County Background Check Policy Turns Up Sex Offender At County Fair

The summer season means local fairs and children's safety is top of mind. So how do parents know the fair workers who travel from city to city aren't sexual offenders?
The Union County prosecutor and sheriff's office fought to make it mandatory for carnival workers to get background checks, bringing to light a disturbing past for one of the workers with the ride company serving the county fair which began Sunday.
On July 10th the Marysville city council passed an emergency ordinance that required carnival companies working at the Union County fair to provide the names of their workers for criminal background checks.
When the Marysville police department conducted a background check of Kissel Brothers employees, 33 year old Robert lee Copes, a tier three sex offender out of Montgomery County, turned up.
“I really wanted to see this man and make sure everything matched. I showed him the picture on the electronic sex offender registration paper that I had. Asked him if that was his picture and he said it was,” said Marysville Chief of Police Floyd Golden.
State law forbids convicted sex offenders from living within a thousand feet of schools. The Union County fair grounds sit just inside that perimeter, therefore making it illegal for Copes to work on fair property.
Chief Golden tells NBC4, his department checked out all 40 Kissel Brothers employees. Besides Copes, the background checks turned up one employee with a felony larceny conviction and about five people with misdemeanor arrest warrants.
Jeannene Henault accompanies her 15 year old daughter, Lizzie to various county fairs as she shows her horse. She applauds the ordinance and is happy to learn it worked.
"She walks from one side of the fairgrounds to the other and I do work about that because you just don't know what's going to happen to your kids," expressed Henault.
NBC4 contacted a Kissel Brother's representative. Dwayne Macek told us Copes had just applied for a job. He says it the company’s policy to do background checks and not hire convicted sex offenders.
"I think it’s disturbing. I've got children. And I think that's the whole purpose of the law and I think its going to work and I think everybody has the right intention,” Macek said.
With the state fair set to begin on July 30th, NBC4 wanted to know what, if any background checks are done on workers, vendors and amusement ride employees.
Christina Leeds with the Ohio Expo Center and State Fair explained, "The fair hires approximately 900 seasonable personnel to help with fair activities that we host and that are our responsibility.”
Those employees hired by the state fair board...must pass a four step screening process. The Ohio State Patrol first conducts a wants and warrant check. That's followed by a check of the National Sex Offender Registry. Then, prospective fair workers must clear a search of the Franklin County Municipal Court records database. Finally, names are run through the Department of Rehabilitations and Corrections database.
But what about the hundreds of independent vendors that set up to sell their wares?
Leeds said hey leave background checks up to them. As for Amusement of America, the company that has provided the rides at the state fair for over 10 years, fair officials have no set policy in place that mandates they conduct them.
"What they will be doing this year is that they will be working with the Ohio State Patrol to do a check," stated Leeds.
A bill has been introduced in the state legislature that would require carnival companies to work with Sheriffs offices statewide to get background checks done.
House bill 246 remains in committee.


How do the Parents know that the people that live down the Street from them or that go to the Fair just like they do are not offenders?

As for the guy that got caught, If he just Applied for a job then why would he be on the rooster of Employees? Why would be have a job if they did do Background Checks?

I know some members of GOSA stepped up to the plate and tried to stop the whole mess and some others really dropped the ball on this issue.

From a owners point of view mine and some other big time owners it goes like this....If you know you got a guy that has a past and might not pass a background check like in this case you don't send the guy to the spot. He gets the week off. Seen it done alot of times. There is plenty of warning to avoid this from happing. It's not like they lock the gates and check everyone once they are inside the Fairgrounds.

What it comes down to is Discrimination. Carnies are being Discriminated against by the very same people that want and need the service they offer. You cannot single out a certain group of people that are on the Fairgrounds and check them without checking everyone that is there. That goes for the Fairboard all the way down to the Derby car Drivers, Horse Race guys, 4-H, and Commercial Vendors. Who knows the guy selling Tractors could be into lil boys....What about the Farmers all camped out there with their animals. They need to be checked too....

What about all the Offenders that live in the Area. Will they be premitted to enter the Fairgrounds? Who will stop them? Probley nobody.

I have played this fair before. It's not much. I gave it up but if I did'nt and they asked me to provide my info for a Background check I'd hook up and leave right then and there. I will not let Johnny Law step on my civil rights for his own agenda.

Another thing is the ACLU does need to get involved and the Race card does need to be played....I'm sure a few of those Kissel guys were Black.


As for the guy in the Amusement Industry that told the City Council that if they did Background Checks on the Carnival there would'nt be enough help to open the Show.....Smooth move. That will really talk them out of doing them.....
Benjibear
Friday, July 25, 2008 6:08:31 AM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Bowler Roller

What rights am I taking from a child?



The right to be able to enjoy the event without walking away with sexual abuse.

Granted, you are only going to catch the people that have been caught before. However, if you are stupid enough to get caught once, you are going to do it again. There is no sure way to stop sexual abuse but there are steps that can be taked to help prevent it from happening.

I will state it again, I don't agree that it should be just the carnies that are singled out. It should go beyond that but where do you draw the line? Well that line needs to be somewhere where the most likely preditors are and where they could get influance on the children. Most likeley somebody will still complain and feel like they are being discriminated againt.

引用:

quote:


From a owners point of view mine and some other big time owners it goes like this....If you know you got a guy that has a past and might not pass a background check like in this case you don't send the guy to the spot. He gets the week off. Seen it done alot of times. There is plenty of warning to avoid this from happing. It's not like they lock the gates and check everyone once they are inside the Fairgrounds



Oh, yeah that is really going to work. Why not this, if you know the guy has a past, why do you hire him and if you find out after he has been hired, fire him? If you knowling bring him to a spot and he abuses somebody, you would be just as liable as he is and should be added to the data base of sexual abusers with him. I just can't beleive how ignorant and stupid this statement is.

I am sick of all the cry babies here saying you are taking away my rights. The world is getting more complecated by the day and every industry and bussiness has to jump through more hoops today then even 10 years ago. I hear it from my clients about why does the building codes make you do _____. The simple answer is because it says so, but the more complicated answer is because it is for the best interest of the public. If you don't like it, there are plenty of things you could do for a living.

To the owners and operators, you need to start embracing these changes. You need to be one step ahead of the regulations. By kicking and screaming all the way it just looks like you have something to hide, you are guilty, and are in need of more regulations to straighten you out. If you follow this when something new comes up, you make an effort to comply with that, then and only then will this industry start having a positive image. Right now, carnies have a negative image and you just prove over and over again that your negitive image is deserved.


It is what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
RRSHOW1
  •  RRSHOW1
  • 57.14% (Neutral)
  • Maintenance Supervisor
Friday, July 25, 2008 7:39:55 AM
Maybe a great promotion--- "Molester Day" at the fair?
cny_chris
Friday, July 25, 2008 8:23:34 AM
What we are seeing is the end result of a witch hunt for abusers. The media has portrayed society today as being filled with abusers, to the point where the hype and hysteria overshadows the reality of the situation. I've heard a common statistic quoted many times, along the lines of "most of the victims of abuse knew their abuser". I've yet to see anything that's disproved the statement.

The problem today, is that we have been led down the path of having restrictions placed on our lives "for our own good", usually with the primary intention to eliminate any risk. Along with that goes the attitude of not taking responsibility for one's actions. This has led to the demands that the rights of many are trampled to protect some. I'm of the opinion that one can never completely eliminate all the risk out there -- and that we have to live with some risk, and be willing to live with the occasional incident.

If an abuser is caught, the punishment should be sufficient to discourage the undesirable behavior. And if the abuser has served their sentence, and been rehabilitated properly, there shouldn't be the concern about them reoffending. If the rehabilitation hasn't occurred, then the system is broken, and very much at fault for releasing a significant risk into the community.

Background checks have morphed some too. Used to be that they were an "innocent until proven guilty" type of thing, where the checks are run when there is a significant risk to life or national security. Today it's a "guilty until proven innocent" situation, which flies in the face of our "democratic" society.

Should a convicted abuser be on the midway? I think that depends on what the risk of them reoffending is. If they are a risk, no, they shouldn't be there -- and if they truly are a risk, what are they doing out on the streets? But if they've served their time, been rehabilitated, and are of little or no risk of reoffending, why should they not be an employed, productive member of society? They could just as easily be the clerk down at the local WalMart, the cashier at the Kwik-E-Mart, or the groundskeeper at the local park. All places where they're still exposed to children, and most of which won't require that background check.

This whole mess has spiraled out of control. The regulars here can recall some of the discussions that have been had about harassment of members while they are taking pictures on carnival lots. The only thing most of these folks are guilty of is being a white male, alone with a camera.

What this all comes down to, is if someone is that much of a risk, they shouldn't be on the streets. If they are no longer a risk, then leave them be, they've been punished for their crime. And for the rest of us (carnies and non-carnies alike), who aren't offenders, quit harassing us, trampling on our rights, and treating us like common criminals.
"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." - Lao-Tsu

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy
with-it
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  • Operations Foreman
Friday, July 25, 2008 8:35:07 AM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Benjibear

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Bowler Roller

What rights am I taking from a child?



The right to be able to enjoy the event without walking away with sexual abuse.

Granted, you are only going to catch the people that have been caught before. However, if you are stupid enough to get caught once, you are going to do it again. There is no sure way to stop sexual abuse but there are steps that can be taked to help prevent it from happening.

I will state it again, I don't agree that it should be just the carnies that are singled out. It should go beyond that but where do you draw the line? Well that line needs to be somewhere where the most likely preditors are and where they could get influance on the children. Most likeley somebody will still complain and feel like they are being discriminated againt.

引用:

quote:


From a owners point of view mine and some other big time owners it goes like this....If you know you got a guy that has a past and might not pass a background check like in this case you don't send the guy to the spot. He gets the week off. Seen it done alot of times. There is plenty of warning to avoid this from happing. It's not like they lock the gates and check everyone once they are inside the Fairgrounds



Oh, yeah that is really going to work. Why not this, if you know the guy has a past, why do you hire him and if you find out after he has been hired, fire him? If you knowling bring him to a spot and he abuses somebody, you would be just as liable as he is and should be added to the data base of sexual abusers with him. I just can't beleive how ignorant and stupid this statement is.

I am sick of all the cry babies here saying you are taking away my rights. The world is getting more complecated by the day and every industry and bussiness has to jump through more hoops today then even 10 years ago. I hear it from my clients about why does the building codes make you do _____. The simple answer is because it says so, but the more complicated answer is because it is for the best interest of the public. If you don't like it, there are plenty of things you could do for a living.

To the owners and operators, you need to start embracing these changes. You need to be one step ahead of the regulations. By kicking and screaming all the way it just looks like you have something to hide, you are guilty, and are in need of more regulations to straighten you out. If you follow this when something new comes up, you make an effort to comply with that, then and only then will this industry start having a positive image. Right now, carnies have a negative image and you just prove over and over again that your negitive image is deserved.



If a guy has done something in the past and is cool to me and is cool now that should'nt be a reason to fire him for something he done...Fire someone for what they are doing now not what they did in the past. There are alot of guys here that take care of their own just like the cops that take care of thier own when one of them does something bad....


引用:

quote:


To the owners and operators, you need to start embracing these changes.

The change of being discriminated against? Nobody will embrace that. If they want to do Background checks for the Fair do it for the whole Fair and not just the Carnies. Then there might be a chance of people embracing it. What protects us from them? What protects the Carnie kids from the local offenders? They want to be sure the Carnival is safe for thier town. I want to be sure their town is safe for the Carnival.
JimmyD
  •  JimmyD
  • 52.88% (Neutral)
  • Ride Supervisor
Friday, July 25, 2008 8:44:18 AM
Well, I wouldnt say that we are crybabies. Losing rights is not something that should be taken lightly for any reason. There are many instances where the "great good" is used to justify the loss of rights. As for whether or not this is for the greater good, that remains to be seen. As usual the idea itself sounds good and seems to be a good one, but that doesnt mean it is a good idea. Now let me also be clear that just becuase I am not for the backround check, does not mean, I am condoning any abuse or hiring of criminals. I just dont think the government needs to be regulating that part of our business. I also dont think that if it is going to be done that we should be singled out. But There are many more industries that deal with children more than we do. These backround checks are an invasion of privacy. Hiring child molestors is certainly not the thing to do. There are laws that are supposed to prohibit it, however these backround checks are no limited to molestation. Now they are moving into other offences. It is certainly nice to know what your help has been up to, and if you wish to make company policies reguarding the hiring of them that is great, but that doesnt mean that just becuase you come to a new town, the city or state should get to know your whole life's history. The whole thing is once again asking you to prove that your a decent person. I would rather see things from the other side, persons who are child molestors and such, are on the national registry. There should simply be a policy to make sure your not on that list, not a backround check for anything you have ever done. Since these are mainly designed to keep out the child molestors. Anyway, my 2 cents there, I am sure there are plenty who will dissagree with me, and thankfully that is still your right to do, at least for now.

Jimmy D
James Dillman III
Dillman Family Rides Inc.
Bowler Roller
Friday, July 25, 2008 1:02:25 PM
引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Benjibear

引用:

quote:


Originally posted by Bowler Roller

What rights am I taking from a child?



The right to be able to enjoy the event without walking away with sexual abuse.



That is not a right. Privacy, equal protection of the law, and being considered innocent until proven guilty, are rights.

Tell me how often children are abused by carnies, at a fair, then show me that it happens more often than in different places, with different people. Then we'll talk.

引用:

quote:


There is no sure way to stop sexual abuse but there are steps that can be taked to help prevent it from happening.



Arbitrarily treating hard working people, with little to no access to children, like heinous criminals is not one of them.

引用:

quote:


From a owners point of view mine and some other big time owners it goes like this....If you know you got a guy that has a past and might not pass a background check like in this case you don't send the guy to the spot. He gets the week off. Seen it done alot of times. There is plenty of warning to avoid this from happing. It's not like they lock the gates and check everyone once they are inside the Fairgrounds



However, these new laws require a check on every person before they can get in the joint. It used to be that if you skipped out on the check, you could still work. That is no longer the case. Miss the check, and you've broken the law.

引用:

quote:


I am sick of all the cry babies here saying you are taking away my rights.




You sound like a dictator.

引用:

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If you don't like it, there are plenty of things you could do for a living.



And there are plenty of other places yo can go for your entertainment. Of course, none of them are any safer than a carnival with no background checks. God forbid people actually watch their damn kids, themselves.

引用:

quote:


To the owners and operators, you need to start embracing these changes.



Bulls***. Owners and opperators need to boycott every state, county, city and fairboard who requires it. You need to tell them "f*** you. Every one of my employees is a human being, and deserves to be treated as such.





Every crowd has a silver lining - PT Barnum
with-it
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Friday, July 25, 2008 9:18:30 PM
引用:

quote:


From a owners point of view mine and some other big time owners it goes like this....If you know you got a guy that has a past and might not pass a background check like in this case you don't send the guy to the spot. He gets the week off. Seen it done alot of times. There is plenty of warning to avoid this from happing. It's not like they lock the gates and check everyone once they are inside the Fairgrounds


引用:

quote:



However, these new laws require a check on every person before they can get in the joint. It used to be that if you skipped out on the check, you could still work. That is no longer the case. Miss the check, and you've broken the law.



The law in Marysville is just a City thing. If I choose not to send someone there to work because of what they would be subjected to is not breaking a law. If the guy went there and avoided the check and worked that would be then. Just one more thing for the next check to find...lol

I want to know if the Union County Sheriffs are gonna stop the 11 Sex Offenders with in a Mile of the Fair from going?????

For the guys that wonder why someone would hire a guy with a troubled past it's simple. The Carnival has always been a place for someone to start over and get second chances at a new life. It helps if the guy can move a Zyclon in 3 hours or a Super Himi in 2 hours. Or if the guy gets big money in a Joint....It's about what that person is NOW not then.
cny_chris
Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:45:11 AM
引用:

quote:


For the guys that wonder why someone would hire a guy with a troubled past it's simple. The Carnival has always been a place for someone to start over and get second chances at a new life. It helps if the guy can move a Zyclon in 3 hours or a Super Himi in 2 hours. Or if the guy gets big money in a Joint....It's about what that person is NOW not then.




We don't always agree on stuff, but I've gotta agree with you on this one, Glenn.
"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." - Lao-Tsu

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy