ringmaster
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Saturday, January 23, 2021 4:56:42 PM
"Guest workers" take away 33,000, That's thousands, by their own count,
jobs from American workers. Am I the only one enraged. The show owners that are treated like gods by this industry trade
paper pernitrate this form of treasons, solely to line their own pockets, Are you a carny who hasn't worked lately? This "program" is sponsored by your elected officials to line the pockets of show owners who grease their own palms, I have never seen anyone publicly complaining about this outrage.
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ridejocky
Saturday, January 23, 2021 5:54:07 PM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

"Guest workers" take away 33,000, That's thousands, by their own count,
jobs from American workers. Am I the only one enraged. The show owners that are treated like gods by this industry trade
paper pernitrate this form of treasons, solely to line their own pockets, Are you a carny who hasn't worked lately? This "program" is sponsored by your elected officials to line the pockets of show owners who grease their own palms, I have never seen anyone publicly complaining about this outrage.



"Guest workers" come in the country legally and go home when they're done. Of much bigger concern are the millions of illegal aliens that drag down wages for low and no skilled American workers.

You're a few months late, the election's over and American workers lost.


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ringmaster
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Saturday, January 23, 2021 6:05:14 PM
Originally Posted by: ridejocky 

"Guest workers" come in the country legally and go home when they're done. Of much bigger concern are the millions of illegal aliens that drag down wages for low and no skilled American workers.

You're a few months late, the election's over and American workers lost.

They go home with your money.
Thirty three thousand is not a large percentage of American workers, but it's a big chunk of show people.
You think this guest worker deal is a win for American workers, other than show owners ?
ridejocky
Sunday, January 24, 2021 7:35:07 PM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

They go home with your money.
Thirty three thousand is not a large percentage of American workers, but it's a big chunk of show people.
You think this guest worker deal is a win for American workers, other than show owners ?



So when I say that having millions of illegal aliens drag down wages for low and no skilled American workers is a bigger concern than thirty-three thousand foreign nationals working in the country legally you conclude from that that I think "...this guest worker deal is a win for American workers..."?

I do not think the guest worker program is a win for the American worker, I think exactly what I said, which is that thirty-three thousand guest workers in the country working legally is less of a concern than the millions of illegal aliens that drag down wages for low and no skilled workers.

If I think lung cancer is a bigger concern than a stubbed toe, it does not follow that I think stubbing my is a win. DO you see the difference? If not, you must be a leftist.

Is difficult for American citizens to get a job with a carnival now? I doubt that very much.


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JustinJames
Monday, January 25, 2021 6:16:32 AM
I hire any employable American that applies. Most last 2 weeks and their mom dies, CPS is at their door and they have to go right now, their backround check comes back horrific or (my personal favorite) they fall in love with some local goat. You name it. The others who end up being great workers stick around for years and years... but that is a LOW number of survivors. We pay more for entry level positions than almost any show in our region. We work less hours than most shows in the country and have nicer equipment than most. The bosses work longer hours than the help and we don't sit on golf carts while the show tears down. Hell, the owner climbs and tears down our Ring of Fire weekly. I manage the show and move the Himalaya and other rides personally. Doesn't matter, they still don't last. Our H2B workers learn English, how to repair small issues and don't have to be told to shave, get a clean shirt, bulb and wash their rides, ect. Our H2B's replace no one, they add to the crews. Instead of one American struggling to move a ride with little help every week, they have trained and familiar guys working along side them that have no interest in drama or blowing in the middle of the night because their girlfriend dumped them. Our show tears 30 rides down in 3 -4 hours and all you hear is hammers and trucks. No fussing, cussing or cigarette breaks every 10 minutes. We move hard because their are 6 guys tearing down a Skywheel, not 3. I know so many who were against H2B... until they suddenly weren't. And it is 66,000 Visa's allowed per fiscal year. 33,000 per half of a fiscal year. Carnivals and Circuses make up less than 6% of H2B Visa usage.

Most cities and counties we play require a list of employees for local background checks. Most fairs prefer the fact that we drug test. Most old school guys are unable to surpass either. I remember playing fairs in the 90's where 200 people were outside the gate waiting to work. Some would end up being the next ride foreman and others would just work that fair each year, you knew to expect them at each respective spot. Now a days... no one even asks about whether or not the show is hiring teardown help unless you're playing a hood spot. And then, they make it 30 minutes and wanna get paid because "I gotta go, man!"

People are not lining up to travel the country like they use to. It sucks, but it is the reality. It isn't just our industry. It is ANY industry where you actually have to WORK.

I'll ask you the same thing I ask all the others who would whine about H2B... WHEN CAN YOU START? What can you move for us? Our website has our job application on it. I'll be looking for yours![drinking]
ringmaster
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Tuesday, January 26, 2021 1:11:36 PM
Sorry, after reading your (low) opinion of American workers, I think I'll give Big Rock a pass.
I'm seventy-six years old and fully disabled. I have to stay home to feed my cats. I still manage to perform at local private parties as a (fake) psychic and lately demonstrate "playing the nuts", I dem the game but don't tip the G.
[drinking3
ridejocky
Tuesday, January 26, 2021 8:36:33 PM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

Sorry, after reading your (low) opinion of American workers, I think I'll give Big Rock a pass.
I'm seventy-six years old and fully disabled. I have to stay home to feed my cats. I still manage to perform at local private parties as a (fake) psychic and lately demonstrate "playing the nuts", I dem the game but don't tip the G.
[drinking3



"fully disabled" i.e. on the public tit...
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JustinJames
Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:50:09 AM
Originally Posted by: ringmaster 

Sorry, after reading your (low) opinion of American workers, I think I'll give Big Rock a pass.
I'm seventy-six years old and fully disabled. I have to stay home to feed my cats. I still manage to perform at local private parties as a (fake) psychic and lately demonstrate "playing the nuts", I dem the game but don't tip the G.
[drinking3



I have a great opinion of American workers. Several of our ride crews are all American crews. But finding 90 employees that can pass drug tests and background checks is becoming more and more difficult.

But if that is what you took from my statement. You may be part of the problem. What I stated is not opinion. It is a first hand account of what I see each season. The world is full of people with opinions yet no ability or desire to help change the very thing they are outraged by.

Did you know that in order to use the H2B program, you have to have a recruiting period and prove the lack of applicants? I will bet you didn't know this. In fact, I will bet your government check you don't know much about the subject you speak so passionately about.

So the bottom line is? You will pass on applying? Because you feel I have a bad opinion of American workers? Or is it that you'll pass because you have no desire to work due to age, disabilities, cats or whatever your common core excuse is? You wanna voice outrage? Fix it! I own cats... Somehow I make it work. 😂

PS - One of my drivers is 77 years old and STILL outworks most of the younger kids out here. Your age is a lame excuse.
JustinJames
Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:51:09 AM
Originally Posted by: ridejocky 

"fully disabled" i.e. on the public tit...



Exactly... Not employable
ridejocky
Wednesday, January 27, 2021 5:54:38 PM
Originally Posted by: JustinJames 

I have a great opinion of American workers. Several of our ride crews are all American crews. But finding 90 employees that can pass drug tests and background checks is becoming more and more difficult.

But if that is what you took from my statement. You may be part of the problem. What I stated is not opinion. It is a first hand account of what I see each season. The world is full of people with opinions yet no ability or desire to help change the very thing they are outraged by.

Did you know that in order to use the H2B program, you have to have a recruiting period and prove the lack of applicants? I will bet you didn't know this. In fact, I will bet your government check you don't know much about the subject you speak so passionately about.

So the bottom line is? You will pass on applying? Because you feel I have a bad opinion of American workers? Or is it that you'll pass because you have no desire to work due to age, disabilities, cats or whatever your common core excuse is? You wanna voice outrage? Fix it! I own cats... Somehow I make it work. 😂

PS - One of my drivers is 77 years old and STILL outworks most of the younger kids out here. Your age is a lame excuse.




On Strates in the '80s the drugs had gotten a little out of hand so he decided to start testing. After finding out which and how many of the guys were coming back dirty they just stopped the testing...


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Matt C.
Wednesday, January 27, 2021 6:29:11 PM
Keep in mind, the facts of the h-2b program (guest worker program):

1) Guest workers are paid a prevailing wage depending on the county / city your working in. This is set above the minimum wage. H-2B workers are not a cheap hire.
2) American workers are also paid the same prevailing wage
3) American employers must certify that they are unable to find workers domestically, before being approved to receive guest workers. They are required to advertise for the position of need and record applicants with the department of labor. The Department of labor will determine if your eligible for the workers.
4) Guest workers COST american employers a lot more than hiring domestically. There are a ton of fees associated with the program from transportation to recruitment to filing.
5) If given the choice, most American employers would much rather hire American... they don't have to pay all the fees, jump through all the political hoops, and worry year in and year out of they will receive their workers.
6) Most Americans want a year-round job, not a seasonal job thats itinerant in nature.
7) There are plenty of shows who advertise for open positions with us - a lot of whom use the H-2B program as well. They still want to hire American workers. Lets keep one thing in mind though - an American worker who cannot pass a drug or background check likely will be passed up on by the employer...

About 5-6,000 of the annual 66,000 guest workers permitted by the US government are employed in the carnival/amusement industry. This is a very small fraction of the entire cap (less then 10%).

Matt Cook
Matt's Carnival Warehouse / Matt's Web Design
http://www.carnivalwarehouse.com 
http://www.mwdwebdesign.com 
ridejocky
Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:27:10 PM
Originally Posted by: Matt C. 

1) Guest workers are paid a prevailing wage depending on the county / city your working in.




Hey Matt, do you know if the prevailing wage is determined by where the employer is based, or where the employee is actually working?

For example, would a show based in rural Florida that plays up and down the east coast determine their rate based on the prevailing wage in rural Florida, or on the prevailing wage at each location the show plays?

Also. is the prevailing wage of a specific occupation used or just a general low/no-skill worker wage?

Thanks!
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thunderbolt85
Monday, February 1, 2021 8:17:36 AM
I don't care much either for H2B workers either, BUT I agree with JustinJames, people just don't want to work hard anymore let alone travel every week for most of the year. I remember exactly what he was talking about, drama and foolishness when a job needs to get done. Not to mention someone blowing the show every week and that is tough when you lose a strong crew that can move a Sky Wheel or Music Fest, then it falls back on the one who stay to do more work.

Now, that being said if shows could provide a little more "benefit" it might sweeten the pot a bit to attract workers, JustinJames you say that you all pay a lot better and I am sure you provide nice LQ as well, so absolutely a step in the right direction. But if in addition shows could offer some type of health insurance/401k for the future (maybe shows could get together and get large group rates with carriers) then that could help even more.

But yes nothing will help the drug/back ground checks situation if these folks don't stay clean and out of trouble, and yes we need those two items in this business.

Sadly today most American's either want to live off the government or work some soft desk job. Think about it, who still plants their own gardens (I know some do, but not as many as used too), why because its hard work. They want to order already prepared meals online, heck I have seen people even hiring folks to put up their own Christmas lights.

I remember the large groups of people as well waiting at the gate wanting to work on set up, and we always seemed to have at least some tear down help, I haven't done that in a while, but I bet its a lot harder getting green help nowadays.

As much as I don't like one trailer music rides (no offense JJ), I get it, shows and operators can't find enough help to move those big 2 and 3 trailer rides because people don't like to work anymore.........and because the silly federal government has made driving a truck such a hassle, but that is another soapbox.

But just my thoughts.
rodler
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Sunday, February 14, 2021 6:28:46 PM
Originally Posted by: thunderbolt85 

I don't care much either for H2B workers either, BUT I agree with JustinJames, people just don't want to work hard anymore let alone travel every week for most of the year. I remember exactly what he was talking about, drama and foolishness when a job needs to get done. Not to mention someone blowing the show every week and that is tough when you lose a strong crew that can move a Sky Wheel or Music Fest, then it falls back on the one who stay to do more work.

Now, that being said if shows could provide a little more "benefit" it might sweeten the pot a bit to attract workers, JustinJames you say that you all pay a lot better and I am sure you provide nice LQ as well, so absolutely a step in the right direction. But if in addition shows could offer some type of health insurance/401k for the future (maybe shows could get together and get large group rates with carriers) then that could help even more.

But yes nothing will help the drug/back ground checks situation if these folks don't stay clean and out of trouble, and yes we need those two items in this business.

Sadly today most American's either want to live off the government or work some soft desk job. Think about it, who still plants their own gardens (I know some do, but not as many as used too), why because its hard work. They want to order already prepared meals online, heck I have seen people even hiring folks to put up their own Christmas lights.

I remember the large groups of people as well waiting at the gate wanting to work on set up, and we always seemed to have at least some tear down help, I haven't done that in a while, but I bet its a lot harder getting green help nowadays.

As much as I don't like one trailer music rides (no offense JJ), I get it, shows and operators can't find enough help to move those big 2 and 3 trailer rides because people don't like to work anymore.........and because the silly federal government has made driving a truck such a hassle, but that is another soapbox.

But just my thoughts.



Maybe if they ever get a national health care plan for folks whose job does not offer one it would help on that end.
RodB
ridejocky
Monday, February 15, 2021 3:03:22 AM
I find the idea that you can't get young men to join the carnival because shows are (generally) not offering health care and or a 401K ridiculous.


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