As I've stated many times,if anybodies belief system can be changed by comments made on any thread anywhere then their belief is not very deeply held. I know that I belong to a (very large and growing) minority when it comes to "religious" thought. (We are 16-18% of Americans. Our largest minority by the way)
I will never "get over" what I see as a wrong being done, period. And because of the 1st amendment I can speak my mind about the wrongs I perceive, that very same 1st amendment gives you the right to rebuttal.
Having said that I must say that I can't for the life of me understand how otherwise rational people can be christian. Religion per se I have no problem with, ANY religion.Whatever helps you to get through the day is fine with me. Its when I have to pay for (in any form) YOUR beliefs and have to live under YOUR restrictions that I start to get .... restless.
The "Satanist" school was said as an illustrative thought and I cannot believe you're so obtuse as to not know that.
The United States has went through many (at least 4) major religious revivals (awakenings to the faithful) in our history. All of them were accompanied by restrictive laws/thoughts imposed on our population as a whole. Each time sanity prevailed in the end. We are in one of these cycles right now.Some people will always need a crutch be it religion,alcohol,drugs or sex. All these things excite the same areas of the brain. I myself went through many years of drug dependence. I didn't need a god or higher power to get myself under control and clean contrary to A.A./N.A.and most if not all of the churches,(yes I tried both and in the end just had a good look at myself and didn't like what I saw , so changed)
McGuffey readers were indeed one of the only real textbooks and did indeed have religious content. I have an 1889 edition in almost mint condition among the books in my library,which is one of my prized possessions. Yes it is still used by some home schooler's and by some of the more fundamentalist christian schools.(Precisely because of the religious content)Do I want my granddaughters being taught from a book written in the early 1900's? No I don't!
And yes, school vouchers force me to support religious teaching when they are used to support religious schools, how can you deny that?
I'll close this with another quote or two from the framers of our constitution:
Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
James Madison (Called the father of the Constitution)
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
Benjamin Franklin
From his Autobiography (chapter 6):
"Some books against Deism fell into my hands¼It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
Here's a couple from other patriots and political leaders:
Ethan Allen
He openly declared himself a deist. When Allen stated that he did not believe in the Christian doctrine of original sin he was told that without original sin there is no need for Christianity. After reflection Allen agreed, there is no need for Christianity, he reasoned.
Abraham Lincoln
William Herndon (Lincoln's law partner and biographer):
Lincoln was not a Christian in any sense other than that he lived a good life and was a noble man.
He was an Agnostic generally, sometimes an Atheist.
Mr. Lincoln never mentioned the name of Christ in his letters and speeches as a Christian. I have searched for such evidence, but could not find it. I have had others search, but they could not find it. This dead silence on the part of Mr. Lincoln is overwhelming proof that he was an unbeliever.
When you put these men against the Pat Robertson's,Oral Robert's,Ted Haggard's,Jim Swaggart's,W.V.Grant's ... the list goes on and on and .....of the world, I think I'll stick with Jefferson,Madison and Franklin.
An end, even with terror, is better than terror without end. F.Neitzsche